Ye Olde West. (Game officially underway)

[Supagoof]

My thinking on the bandits/outlaws was this. I wanted the 3rd faction in the game to have a different goal that didn't have the same method of winning that the outlaws did, hence the bandit's and the money. From a numbers perspective, I calculated out the % of people needed to be killed in order for the outlaws to win, which was 79%, so I put the bandit's at 85% knowing it was a harder goal to reach, but also a different goal to track. The outlaws, having the ability to scry and kill nightly, is a huge advantage over the bandit roles.

I wanted it so that the bandit's and the outlaws wouldn't have an advantage by teaming up. I felt this was a good way to do such.

The tool that the town had was the ability to transfer money. Now I know there's the fear of transferring money directly into a bandit hand, but with the knowledge that the bandit's couldn't steal from themselves, I figured someone would put together that "Hey, it's safe to send money to that person, they can't be a bandit!" Hence spreading out the remaining money the town had preventing the bandits from stealing it in one night. Needless to say, with only 5 transfers total, this tool was not utilized enough.

Yes, the bandit seer role was compromised due to this. What good does a scry become when the people can transfer money and change the result of said scry at any time?

So next round, the money will have more meaning, hence when you transfer money, it should serve to help build "trust" within the game.

As for the outlaw kills benifitting the bandits, that's true, but about midway through the game the outlaws made a kill that also went in the right direction. They killed a person who was previously robbed by the bandits, hence not making the total money pool shrink. So if they did this, they both help and hinder bandit progress. The help it in the fact that it's one less townsperson to transfer to/from, but hinder it in the fact it doesn't bring the bandit's closer to the goal.

I figured with the rules the bandits had to play in, it would be a matter of time before they reached their goal, so the outlaws were playing against the clock rather then against the person. Thus, even though the outlaws were against the town, they were also alligned with the town in the want to eliminate bandits.

And the bandits for the same reason, against the outlaws.

Autolynches benifitted everyone except the town, as it gave the bandit's a smaller pool of money and the outlaws less to kill from, so I can't stress enough how important it is to make sure you aren't autolynched. I think we may extend the next round to three points missed total, rather then the point every other day. Part of playing the game is pointing, and those who use the system to hide in by not pointing seem very suspicious to me, but how you distinguish those from the ones who actually aren't here? I'm a "If you're going to play the game, then PLAY the game" kind of guy, so I think going to a three missed points total rather then two points in a row would work better.

[Castaras]

Can I just ask, why did the bandits and outlaws kill/rob me that night?

[Selrahc]

I wanted it so that the bandit's and the outlaws wouldn't have an advantage by teaming up. I felt this was a good way to do such.

I still see a big advantage in teaming up.... Control of the lynches. For a good number of the days bandits+outlaws exceeded villagers. If they had been inclined to work together, they would have controlled who got lynched.

Even on the first few days Bandits and Outlaws working together would have controlled a third of the vote.


This didn't happen, which was a very good thing. But I think this game is even harder to win for the villagers than a normal werewolf game, since they don't even have much of a numbers advantage.

[Supagoof]

True, the town was against 1/3rd of it's population, then again it had a 1 in 3 chance of lynching someone, which was to it's advantage (as seen on day 1!), and the only person who was able to prevent a lynching was in the town...

Plus, and this was more evident at the end, it's not just 2/3 vs. 1/3, it's more of a (2/3 & 1/6) vs 1/6, so even unholy alliances would still help, like the outlaws and the town kinda formed at the end.

And it may have helped if Kyrian hadn't had to prove he was a mason right away, or if the other masons were around more to support him, thus utilizing another part of the town better. I always thought the masons best job was to get the baner and seers attention and help connect them, though it's not an easy task, it is do-able. One of the masons must be willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good, as with being a mason who's revealed themself to the town, you'll most likely get killed that night.

And re-checking my PMs, it was indeed 12hrs + 7mins
So next time, slightly smaller teams for the bandits/outlaws then? perhaps more of a 1/4 (1/8 each) size ratio?

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

I think the ratio is good. It was a darn close game and the villagers were hampered by some variables. Posse not around much and the baner being revealed so early really hurt, plus Kyrian revealing himself too soon didn't do any good.

I chose not to interact with the outlaws because well...they seemed to want to kill us and I was afraid of that.

[Kyrian]

Well, I didn't have much of a choice, since somebody decided to leave his Tormsskull bandwagon going.

Plus it's annoying to find that both of my teammates flipping got autohanged.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

Its not my fault that the narrators weren't willing to kill him. He seemed fine with the idea.

[Captain van der Decken]

Originally Posted by Atreyu the Masked LLama

I chose not to interact with the outlaws because well...they seemed to want to kill us and I was afraid of that.

As there were the same number of outlaws and bandits, I'm sure we could have come to an agreement.


Damn. Wish I'd thought of that, too.

[Supagoof]

True Kyrian. I hates the autohang, but it needs to be done. I hates the "I'll play by not playing" even more. I much prefer the subterfuge.

Items that I'm thinking of for next round to purchase in the store....

Bowie Knife - Cut yourself free from a day lynching, usuable only once.
Desperado's mask - Hide your identity from scrying eyes, wearable at all times, but is gone after a scry attempt has been made on you.
Small piggy bank - Can hold 3 coins safely from one theft attempt.
Large Piggy bank - Can hold any number of coins, but also prevents scrying eyes.....
Water Bucket - May be perched on door at night to prevent Bandit/Outlaw from sneaking into your house.
Magic Bullet - Bullet in your gun goes off when you die, killing person who helped finalize your fate (Either random Outlaw at Night, or random person to point at you during the day. Will use die roller in post.)
Makeup Kit - Changes your identity, giving you the look of someone else.

These items, once purchased, remain with the user until they are used or person dies. Prices to be determined.

Other ideas that are more solidly forming....

Auctions - Any such items and gold a person is holding will go into the auction of said person when they die, but items won't be revealed until the auction is over and only revealed to the winner of the auction. If nobody bids on a persons items at death, those items will be buried in the dessert. Auctions will be public for bidding. ((So if you have more gold, people may wonder how you got it.....)).
Winners to be annouced, but winnings (gold and items) sent only to the winner. And since we'll know how much each of you is carrying/has, you can choose to say bid 7 coins if you have only 3 to drive the price up, we won't say how many coins you have, but any bid only counts for 3 coins.
(Example. Person A bids 3 coins, Person B bids 4 coins, Person A then bids 5, B bids 6, A bids 7 and is last to bid....at end of day, Person B is annouced winner of auction. This means person B bid, and had more to bid, then person A. If person B had 6 coins, we take all six. If person B had 2 coins, we take 2. If person B had 8 coins, we take 6 as that was their highest bid, but it still was more then person A had available to bid.)

Gold used in auction or at store will end up in the dessert the day after, and is where searching will be allowed. Similar to pirates II, one search per day per person. Results of searches to be sent via PM to person when narrators are available.

This should both keep the total number of coins in the game available at any given time the same - this removes the bandit advantage from the outlaw kills. That being said, I think we'll keep the no loss of Bandit gold when a bandit is killed in play. Items bandits purchase &/or win will be carried by winning person, and rules for auctions will apply to items.

Role changes:
The bandit seer will become a safe cracker. They will be able to see how many coins a person has, or if they find the safe, they will crack it wide open. if they find the safe, they will not know how many coins were in the safe.

The banker will now see how much money they are protecting. If the banker decides to protect you, they will know how many coins you have. If the safe gets destroyed, the banker will still be able to see one person's holding per night.

There will be no limit to the amount of money that cen be transfered or when the money can be transferred. (If you're going to hang, you should probably send that money onto somebody.....)

Also, bandits will be allowed to "steal" from themselves....

Updates on game progress will take place every morning, so activities from the prior night and day will appear to take effect at the same time. I.E. If the bandit's have a successful day of searching the dessert/winning a good auction, they may choose to steal from themselves, and make the update stats change even though they have stolen nothing.

Again adding more into the mix, thoughts.....

[Captain van der Decken]

Originally Posted by Supagoof

True Kyrian. I hates the autohang, but it needs to be done. I hates the "I'll play by not playing" even more. I much prefer the subterfuge.

Items that I'm thinking of for next round to purchase in the store....

Bowie Knife - Cut yourself free from a day lynching, usuable only once.
Desperado's mask - Hide your identity from scrying eyes, wearable at all times, but is gone after a scry attempt has been made on you.
Small piggy bank - Can hold 3 coins safely from one theft attempt.
Large Piggy bank - Can hold any number of coins, but also prevents scrying eyes.....
Water Bucket - May be perched on door at night to prevent Bandit/Outlaw from sneaking into your house.
Magic Bullet - Bullet in your gun goes off when you die, killing person who helped finalize your fate (Either random Outlaw at Night, or random person to point at you during the day. Will use die roller in post.)
Makeup Kit - Changes your identity, giving you the look of someone else.

Some of those seem a bit powerful. Notably Magic Bullet.

[faerwain]

Originally Posted by Castaras

Can I just ask, why did the bandits and outlaws kill/rob me that night?

Well, as much as I hate to disturb the aura of omnipotence and conspiracy created, it was honestly more or less a gut feeling that I suggested you to be robbed. And I had somehow the hope that you would have earned the trust of some to get their money transferrred to you.

[Supagoof]

Originally Posted by Captain van der Decken

Some of those seem a bit powerful. Notably Magic Bullet.

Maybe, but it would have a fairly high price tag, or if no one wants it, be removed alltogether.

Thanks Captain,

Others, please share your thoughts, I'm listening....

[HyramGraff]

I'm thinking that the items will force the days to be longer. One thing that happened in the latest pirates was that nobody pointed until all the search checks came back which took about half the time alloted for the day. Having items and auctions will cause players to hold off pointing until those are resolved.

[inky13112]

Wait, where does the money that people to pay to buy items/buy at the auction go? Because it seems to me the money pool will rapidly drop as people buy things. Which means that A) villagers have to fear buying things, as they increase the probability of a bandit win and B) that the number of coins in the game at any given time will not be the same. Unless you have someone who gets all the money when people buy things. (shopkeeper maybe?)

Also I look forward to searching the dessert. I hope I find a cherry.

[Supagoof]

The money goes into the dessert.

As it could/would play out.

Y dies in the night. Y has ? gold and ? items.

X bids 3 coins on the stuff Y had in the auction. The money X bids is sent to random spot in dessert. X is told they won the 4 gold and bucket of water Y had.

Y's stuff is added into X's inventory. 3 coins are placed in dessert. Next day, X searches the dessert. X get's lucky and finds 3 coins.

X uses new found money and money won to buy another item. X spends 5 coins on piggy bank.

5 coins out to dessert. Wash, rinse, & repeat.

I agree Hyram, we'd probably have to lengthen the days, to a 72 hour day, to allow for the extra searches, biddings, pointings - then again, you could point and search at the same time, as search results do not have to correspond with lynching results, as searches are for more "phat loot" and points are to eliminate the enemy. The auctions would end 24 hours after day begins. I still have to figure out the best way to do searches. I'm thinking searching by a grid pattern....where the dessert is

Dessert	1	2	3	4	5
1
2
3
4
5

And the search would involve you rolling 2 1d5 (or 2d5) using the rollv command. 1 for across and 1 for down.

Or maybe the highest d20 gets the dessert loot that day......

[inky13112]

I dunno.. You could make it a 10x10 plot, roll for where the moneys are each day, and then make us guess where it is each day, battleship style. E7!

And first to post there search gets it, because of the whole, I claim this plot thing. And I'll shoot you if you try to take it!

The next day you roll for it again.

Oo and another good idea, have more than one chest, IE person A buys a magic bullet. 10 coins go to the dessert in chest X. Person B pays 5 gold to auction. 5 gold goes in chest Y, placed somewhere else. Finally person C gets lynched there 2 gold and Small Piggy Bank go into chest Z. Its in yet another plot.

And where they are changes each day. Shifting sands and all that.

[Zeb The Troll]

You also wouldn't have to do two rolls. Just number each grid square.

1	2	3	4	5
6	7	8	9	10
11	12	13	14	15
16	17	18	19	20
21	22	23	24	25

[Alarra]

Sorry, but this is driving me nuts. It's desert. Unless we're searching the pies for coins anyway.

[inky13112]

heh, I was going to say the exact same thing.

I feel this post should have more to it, soooo items. I've bee trying to decide whether those items are totally imbalanced or not. I suppose it depends on their percentage of the gold available to people, so that it takes an abnormally large amount to get one, therefore encouraging the whole searching, swapping of gold thing, as well as ensuring they don't become overly problematic and imbalanced.

So they can all be balanced theoretically, given the correct price.

[Helgraf]

Ye gads - at this rate, bind the rules onto cardstock and make a board game of it.

[Supagoof]

Inky, I may not do a battleship style, though I will do multiple "chests" in the dessert. (I know I'm spelling it wrong, but now I have something upon which I can mess with Castaras' role and make a fun little story out of.....). Since we'll have profits from auction and store (chest for auction, chest for store) and the possibility of us crazy narrators mixing those up into larger and smaller "chest" to keep you guessing.

The problem with battleship is that it relies on the person to post in that spot first.....and I don't like "racing to post" style games, simply because of the time zone difference. Though I suppose it's not like musical chairs, where if you're the last to post you're don't get a spot.....*will think about this*

Zeb - good call. I shall keep it simple.

Helgraf - Hmmm....you're onto something. *Goes to look for contact information for the people at Milton Bradley to sell idea*

[DarkLightDragon]

Who wrote the 4th Degree ( ) bandit scene? That was AWESOME!

We should have more of those.

[Castaras]

Originally Posted by Supagoof

Inky, I may not do a battleship style, though I will do multiple "chests" in the dessert. (I know I'm spelling it wrong, but now I have something upon which I can mess with Castaras' role and make a fun little story out of.....). Since we'll have profits from auction and store (chest for auction, chest for store) and the possibility of us crazy narrators mixing those up into larger and smaller "chest" to keep you guessing.

My role?

Ooo.

I feel special.

[Supagoof]

^^ That one I did. You're welcome DLD, CVDD. Though Faerwain and Raldor came up with the idea of having the flux capacitor wired to his wheelchair for the death scene.

^ Yes just for you, though inevitibly upon your demise you would end up wandering the dessert, searching for your lost pie..... I had an idea at one point to have a pie stolen from your kitchen window for your bandit scene, but with the music re-write the outlaws did was so good, I plain forgot about that idea.

And to Zeb & Crew, the death scenes you guys sent were amazing! Everyone should give you a round of writing applause.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

*applauds*

*and a bleat of praise for Supagoof for the lynching scenes that he wrote*

[Castaras]

Originally Posted by Supagoof

...though inevitibly upon your demise you would end up wandering the dessert, searching for your lost pie.....

That pun was so bad, it would be sigged if I had space.

And yeah, that was one freaking awesome death scene. I may have died, but I died with Style!

[Bassetking]

So... Now that I own this framed picture of the 4th Degree...

[Zeb The Troll]

Originally Posted by Supagoof

And to Zeb & Crew, the death scenes you guys sent were amazing! Everyone should give you a round of writing applause.

Thanks. Glad you liked 'em.

[DarkLightDragon]

Originally Posted by Bassetking

So... Now that I own this framed picture of the 4th Degree...

GIMMIE!