Kunai (More realistic)

[crazedloon]

Well I have seen to many people try and pass the Kunai off as a thrown weapon and I wanted to see a more relistic version (and yes I actualy thought in my head how each of these could potentialy be made...I am what you would call a loser ) so here is my try at it.

Simple Weapons	Cost	Dmg (S)	Dmg (M)	Critical	Range Increment	Weight1	Type2
Kunai	2 gp	1d3	1d4	19-20/×2	-	1lb	Piercing

You get a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a Kunai on your body

Kunai count as a monk weapon see monk description

If a wielder of a Kunai has enough ranks in use rope she may use the Kunai in a few diffrent ways.

Use	use rope rank	DC	materials	special
crowbar	0	-	-	+2 on strength check to open locks or other small objects
Piton	4	14	-	+2 Circumstance modifier to climb checks
trowl/shovel	4	-	quarterstaff (or equivlent rod for a shaft) 2' rope	+2 Circumstance modifier to proffesion farmer
spear	4	14	quarterstaff (or equivlent rod for a shaft) 2' rope	1
light pick	7	17	club 2' rope	1
Pick, heavy	10	20	2 kunai 4' rope	1
Guisarme	13	23	quarterstaff (or equivlent rod for a shaft) 3 kunai 4' rope	1
Ranseur	13	23	quarterstaff (or equivlent rod for a shaft) 3 kunai 4' rope	1
Spiked armor	16	26	rope 20' 10 kunai	1,2,3 +1 deflection bonus to AC
Spiked shield	16	26	rope 10' 5 kunai	1,2, +1 deflection bonus to AC
Chain, spiked	22	32	20' rope 15 kunai	1,2

1. For every 10 points that you pass this DC you gain a +1 to attack rolls with the kunai, this bonus does not stack with Masterwork or Magic instead use the better to hit modifier of any bonuses to hit. You may not take 10 or 20 on this role and it takes 5 minutes to prepare your weapon in this manner. Every time you use the same piece of rope you gain a cumulative -2 to the use rope check as the rope begins to wear. Also you must reapply the rope check every 12 hour period. As long as you have weapon focus Kunai you never suffer non-proficiency with any weapon made using Kunai

2. Do the higher complexity of this item or its particular wear and tear in use these only last for 8 hours and rope used again has a -4 cumulative modifier to the use rope check.

3. You do not actually need to wear armor to gain use of this form of use instead you can make attacks as if you were wearing spiked armor.
__________________________________________________ ___

Ok well that is what I can think of for now what do you think?

[Innis Cabal]

neat idea, i like the use of kunai's as not just a normal weapon

[Maldraugedhen]

It's a Swiss Army Thrown Weapon!

[crazedloon]

Originally Posted by Maldraugedhen

It's a Swiss Army Thrown Weapon!

minus the thrown part (well unless you want to take -4 to attack) But that was pretty much the intent and the actual use of the Kunai

[Kultrum]

Originally Posted by crazedloon

But that was pretty much the intent and the actual use of the Kunai

as it was for almost all oriental weapons

[Innis Cabal]

versatilty on the battlefield is better then good tactics....and its better then a swiss army knife...how butch is an army with a wine opener built into their knife?

[Kultrum]

Originally Posted by Innis Cabal

versatilty on the battlefield is better then good tactics....and its better then a swiss army knife...how butch is an army with a wine opener built into their knife?

*in a drill Sargent's accent* Many of you have never opened chardonnay under fire!

[Innis Cabal]

YES! you just won yourself another point Kultrum!

[Demented]

Under fire? Heavens, half the point of a war is to drink your enemy's wine in your enemy's house! Any army that goes to war without corkscrews has the wrong idea.

[crazedloon]

Originally Posted by Kultrum

*in a drill Sargent's accent* Many of you have never opened chardonnay under fire!

must resist urge to add that as an ability

(does anyone else know of a normal weapon (or exotic) that could fesably be made out of a well tied set of Kunai and a staff or any equipment that these could replicate (just though of crowbar adding now) )

[Innis Cabal]

just becuase intoxication makes the fire fights prettier does not mean you have an excuse to drink, besides real men drink Guinness

[Kultrum]

well with about 6' rope, 2 trees, 6 kunai, and a few yard o' canvas you got a tent. With a ton of rope and 4 kunai you can make a net for fishing.

[crazedloon]

Originally Posted by Kultrum

well with about 6' rope, 2 trees, 6 kunai, and a few yard o' canvas you got a tent. With a ton of rope and 4 kunai you can make a net for fishing.

a wee bit too far out there i.e. not realy the kunai doing that but more of a survival on the first one and just plain rope check on the second

[Collin152]

Ehhm.... Points for effort, but it makes the oter underused weapons jealous and lonely, so you'll have to buff them up too. I suggest you start with shuriken.

[crazedloon]

well last time I checked kunai were not a weapon in DnD plus shurkin are not bad at all when you consider you can enchant them like they are ammo then add into that master thrower you can palm throw a bunch and each can have a very effective spell on them.

However I will have to think about the other weapons

[Demented]

Monk weapon?

I'm not sure what kunai you're looking at, but it doesn't seem like a kunai would make a good crowbar or shovel, to me. As a trowel I suppose it would do, but no better than a normal trowel, which provides no bonus to farming; only a masterwork farming tool would do that. As well, crowbars are the barbarians of the tool world, difficult at best to emulate with a cast iron dagger. The piton idea is pretty clever, though there's actually a different implementation for pitons, check the Climb skill.

Also, I'd pass on the "For every 10 points that you pass this DC you gain a +1 to attack rolls with the kunai". That's what masterwork kunai are for. (I'll let the wear-and-tear mechanics stand. )


That said, a kunai is a wedge... So it'd make an excellent doorstop. It could also be used as a paperweight, plumb bob, or improvised sundial. Other uses include an arrowhead for a ballista, trap spike, slashing flail, meat tenderizer, ankle splint....

[crazedloon]

I agree a on the it not being a good crowbar for say a door but It can be an effective crowbar on a small object (thus the reason I put it in the description) it more or less alows you to get leverage which you normaly could not get.

as far as the shovel its not realy a shovel but more of a garden implement ,plow,hoe,dirt mover...... and I doubt that will come into play often

Hmm to tell you the truth I to am iffy about the +1 to attack with a good check but I don't know I sort of like it hmmm I will have to think further on it.

[Angafirith]

I'm a bit iffy on the idea. I don't like the sound of taking a perfectly happy sharp knife and intentionally bending and prying with it (crowbar) pounding it into rock (Pitons, Pick) or dirt (Trowel). I'm certainly not quite getting how you would make spiked armor or shields, either. I'm under the impression that Spiked armor and shields are useful because their spikes do not move, as Kunai on ropes would. Kunai, being throwing weapons, are balanced for throwing. I can see some of these things being used, but as an improvised weapon at best.

I admit that it's no Kunai, but I have a pocket knife that's badly bent because someone tried to pry something open with the knife blade. I can't see how anyone would expect to actually use it in any of these ways.

Just as an aside, do you watch a lot of Naruto?

[crazedloon]

Originally Posted by Angafirith

I'm a bit iffy on the idea. I don't like the sound of taking a perfectly happy sharp knife and intentionally bending and prying with it (crowbar) pounding it into rock (Pitons, Pick) or dirt (Trowel). I'm certainly not quite getting how you would make spiked armor or shields, either. I'm under the impression that Spiked armor and shields are useful because their spikes do not move, as Kunai on ropes would. Kunai, being throwing weapons, are balanced for throwing. I can see some of these things being used, but as an improvised weapon at best.

I admit that it's no Kunai, but I have a pocket knife that's badly bent because someone tried to pry something open with the knife blade. I can't see how anyone would expect to actually use it in any of these ways.

Just as an aside, do you watch a lot of Naruto?

Lol actually I made this because to many people watch Naruto

First off you will need to get the silly Impression that kunai is a thrown weapon or even close to balanced for throwing

Actual Kunai were used in a very similar fashion to this. They were used as easily concealed weapons because they were also used as tools in everyday life, but the loop on the end allowed them to be tied to a shaft and made into an effective spear when needed. The extra weapons are not too big of a stretch of the imagination. As for the spiked armor/shield and spiked chain those are a little of a stretch but perfectly plausible as with the proper knots and use of rope you could get a kunai to stand up but not for as long as a weapon would be able to be used for (thus the reduced time)

Now as for the prying a Kunai is made from a different metal then your knife and it is thicker they were used for prying apart old mortar and bricks to fix houses, they were used as gardening utensils, and they were generally abused and they were made from iron not steel for that reason alone.

[Closet_Skeleton]

You could always give them a 5 ft. range increment. Then you could throw them but the range penalties would build up at an incredible rate (-10 for the standard 30 ft.) making them almost useless.

[Demented]

A kunai is poorly balanced for throwing. If you throw it, it should have the -4 penalty for being an improvised weapon. Same as throwing most other weapons without range increments. (Though, rocks make excellent thrown weapons!)

Originally Posted by crazedloon

Now as for the prying a Kunai is...

Steel is more iron than the "iron" you refer to, which is likely cast iron (a different kind of steel, really), which has a higher portion of carbon. To wit: While the pen knife may have bent badly, a cast iron knife of the same thickness would've snapped. Useful cast iron tools are generally thick and heavy for that reason. Steel is just better for hand tools.

As for breaking a lock, a kunai would be no better than any other tool. A hammer or axe could smash anything a kunai could break. A crowbar is ideally suited for breaking things, because it's a heavy tool that gains a tremendous benefit from leverage--a kunai does not.

Though, if you rigged up a complicated pulley system (think Macguyver), you could put some astounding force onto a kunai.
*Yank*
KRAKOW!

Also, "its not realy a shovel but more of a garden implement"
It's still being implied that a kunai (which costs 2 gp) is somehow equivalent to a masterwork farming tool (which costs 50 gp).

[jjpickar]

I think its made of iron (I know, really steal of a kind but lower quality) because its cheaper to produce so that people don't really care about breaking it. Also thicker does equal stronger. His case of old mortar is not like breaking rocks in the sense of trying to stab concrete. Old mortar is pretty brittle and can be chipped easily. A kunai is probably better suited to the job than a pen knife because its thicker.

[Angafirith]

Originally Posted by crazedloon

Lol actually I made this because to many people watch Naruto

First off you will need to get the silly Impression that kunai is a thrown weapon or even close to balanced for throwing

Actual Kunai were used in a very similar fashion to this. They were used as easily concealed weapons because they were also used as tools in everyday life, but the loop on the end allowed them to be tied to a shaft and made into an effective spear when needed. The extra weapons are not too big of a stretch of the imagination. As for the spiked armor/shield and spiked chain those are a little of a stretch but perfectly plausible as with the proper knots and use of rope you could get a kunai to stand up but not for as long as a weapon would be able to be used for (thus the reduced time)

Now as for the prying a Kunai is made from a different metal then your knife and it is thicker they were used for prying apart old mortar and bricks to fix houses, they were used as gardening utensils, and they were generally abused and they were made from iron not steel for that reason alone.

I suppose I should apologize for responding before doing any research. I suppose the problem is that I see so many people who seem to think that the Katana is some feudal superweapon. I was just joking last night: "I once saw my grandma cut an adamantium M1 Abrahms in half with a period katana". When I see people talk about weaponry (especially Asian and specifically Japanese weaponry) in a way that seems unrealistic to me, I tend to fly off the handle. I'll chalk this up to experience and make sure to look things up first.

I looked at Wikipedia and it seems to agree with you, though most of the article is not cited. If you have any online sources that show how many of these things were done, I'd very much like to see them. I'm genuinely interested in seeing how the knots would be done, among other things. I suppose I should have considered that it could be a normal tool, just like the Kama. I was under the impression that steel used for making sharper tools was generally more brittle, but I suppose something like a trowel would not have been all that sharp.

In terms of balance, I think some of these things might be a little too powerful. For one, a crowbar costs the same as one of your Kunai. Why would anyone purchase a crowbar? For that matter, it seems like any weapon can be used to bust open a chest or other thing. What specifically makes a Kunai more suited to the task than a dagger?

[Amphimir Míriel]

Originally Posted by Demented

Under fire? Heavens, half the point of a war is to drink your enemy's wine in your enemy's house! Any army that goes to war without corkscrews has the wrong idea.

[window crashes, 3 dwarves jump into the room with crossbows and axes]
"I declare that this tavern has been liberated by the Red Army of the Revolutionary Dwarves Faction!! Now, drop your glasses and go, you imperialist pigs!"

[other window crashes, 3 elves jump into the room with longbows and swords]

"I hearby inform all the patrons of this establishment that the Elf-Gnomish Liberation Brigade has taken control of this area! Evacuate the area immediately and you will not be harmed!"

[Elves and Dwarves look at each other, first in confusion and then menacingly]

"No! This tavern has been already liberated by the Red Army of the Revolutionary Dwarves Faction"

"Aw shutup, you just want to raid the wine cellar"

"That's not true, this place is... er... of strategic importance!"

"Well, we did come for the wine..."

"How'bout we take the Ale, you take the wine..."

"...and we never saw each other"

"Done!"

---

With apologies to Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman

[Kultrum]

Originally Posted by Amphimir Míriel

[window crashes, 3 dwarves jump into the room with crossbows and axes]
"I declare that this tavern has been liberated by the Red Army of the Revolutionary Dwarves Faction!! Now, drop your glasses and go, you imperialist pigs!"

[other window crashes, 3 elves jump into the room with longbows and swords]

"I hearby inform all the patrons of this establishment that the Elf-Gnomish Liberation Brigade has taken control of this area! Evacuate the area immediately and you will not be harmed!"

[Elves and Dwarves look at each other, first in confusion and then menacingly]

"No! This tavern has been already liberated by the Red Army of the Revolutionary Dwarves Faction"

"Aw shutup, you just want to raid the wine cellar"

"That's not true, this place is... er... of strategic importance!"

"Well, we did come for the wine..."

"How'bout we take the Ale, you take the wine..."

"...and we never saw each other"

"Done!"

---

With apologies to Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman

hehe crowley ftw

[XtheYeti]

Originally Posted by Amphimir Míriel

[window crashes, 3 dwarves jump into the room with crossbows and axes]
"I declare that this tavern has been liberated by the Red Army of the Revolutionary Dwarves Faction!! Now, drop your glasses and go, you imperialist pigs!"

[other window crashes, 3 elves jump into the room with longbows and swords]

"I hearby inform all the patrons of this establishment that the Elf-Gnomish Liberation Brigade has taken control of this area! Evacuate the area immediately and you will not be harmed!"

[Elves and Dwarves look at each other, first in confusion and then menacingly]

"No! This tavern has been already liberated by the Red Army of the Revolutionary Dwarves Faction"

"Aw shutup, you just want to raid the wine cellar"

"That's not true, this place is... er... of strategic importance!"

"Well, we did come for the wine..."

"How'bout we take the Ale, you take the wine..."

"...and we never saw each other"

"Done!"

---

With apologies to Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman

Your my hero