Sorry to disappoint people who were looking for one, but there'll be no Parson's Klog today. In fact, there won't be many at all for the remainder of the story, so don't expect new ones; just be pleasantly surprised when/if one shows up again.
The basic purpose of the Klogs has mostly been fulfilled. We wanted them to convey to you guys some chunks of information that would have been complex and clumsy to work into the dialogue.
But the other purpose was to show you something about Parson. He's a blogger, and it's natural that he'd use the eyebooks that way, as an infodump of notes and speculation as he geeks out about the rules of Erfworld.
A poll showed that about 90 percent of people liked the Klogs. The other 10 percent thought I was a hack for using them, and were fairly obnoxious about saying so. I hope that the vocal 10 percent will try and understand what the Klogs were meant for. Erfworld is not a fully linear story. There are elements outside of the strict comic narrative, such as the Hamstard site, which tell part of the story in another medium. The comic can stand on its own, but the other elements are there to add other dimensions to it.
I'm not completely happy with telling the Erfworld story this way. The pace of updates grates on me, like it bothers a lot of readers. I'm not wild about having to end a page with some kind of dramatic or comedy punch if the scene is meant to stretch over two or three pages.
But probably the biggest drag are the backseat drivers, the ones who take issue with our creative choices, who point at Erfworld and say THATS NOT HOW 2 TELL TEH STORY UR DOING IT WRONG!!!
Today, for example, someone registered a new forum account for the express purpose of calling me a sexist. The guy demonstrated that he doesn't understand the characters or the story, made some dumb and unsupportable arguments about our female characters that came out of whatever sociopolitical baggage he's carrying around, and sat back and crossed his arms with the satisfaction of a job well done.
I know that kind of thing comes with the territory. But it doesn't take many people like that to suck the joy out of doing this project.
Erfworld is what it is. We're telling the story we set out to tell. If you find yourself wanting to use these forums to coach me on writing, don't. If you think I'm a crappy storyteller, just use me as a negative example to learn from, and go write the story you want to tell.
That's what I did when I read stories I thought were badly written. And that's why I'm here, telling the best one I'm capable of.
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Rob Balder, Erfworld author/co-creator, and creator of PartiallyClips
Sorry to disappoint people who were looking for one, but there'll be no Parson's Klog today. In fact, there won't be many at all for the remainder of the story, so don't expect new ones; just be pleasantly surprised when/if one shows up again.
The basic purpose of the Klogs has mostly been fulfilled. We wanted them to convey to you guys some chunks of information that would have been complex and clumsy to work into the dialogue.
But the other purpose was to show you something about Parson. He's a blogger, and it's natural that he'd use the eyebooks that way, as an infodump of notes and speculation as he geeks out about the rules of Erfworld.
A poll showed that about 90 percent of people liked the Klogs. The other 10 percent thought I was a hack for using them, and were fairly obnoxious about saying so. I hope that the vocal 10 percent will try and understand what the Klogs were meant for. Erfworld is not a fully linear story. There are elements outside of the strict comic narrative, such as the Hamstard site, which tell part of the story in another medium. The comic can stand on its own, but the other elements are there to add other dimensions to it.
I'm not completely happy with telling the Erfworld story this way. The pace of updates grates on me, like it bothers a lot of readers. I'm not wild about having to end a page with some kind of dramatic or comedy punch if the scene is meant to stretch over two or three pages.
But probably the biggest drag are the backseat drivers, the ones who take issue with our creative choices, who point at Erfworld and say THATS NOT HOW 2 TELL TEH STORY UR DOING IT WRONG!!!
Today, for example, someone registered a new forum account for the express purpose of calling me a sexist. The guy demonstrated that he doesn't understand the characters or the story, made some dumb and unsupportable arguments about our female characters that came out of whatever sociopolitical baggage he's carrying around, and sat back and crossed his arms with the satisfaction of a job well done.
I know that kind of thing comes with the territory. But it doesn't take many people like that to suck the joy out of doing this project.
Erfworld is what it is. We're telling the story we set out to tell. If you find yourself wanting to use these forums to coach me on writing, don't. If you think I'm a crappy storyteller, just use me as a negative example to learn from, and go write the story you want to tell.
That's what I did when I read stories I thought were badly written. And that's why I'm here, telling the best one I'm capable of.
First reaction: Awwwww, man. No more Klogs.
Second reaction: GO ROB! Put down those dissenters. Constructive criticism is nice, but some of the comments that have been floating around have been outright malicious.
People We will bring themselves ourselves to the story. That's not even negotiable or debatable. People's Our responses will go off on tangents driven by their our personal needs and subjective perceptions. I want the rest of your story, so I want you to enjoy telling it, so I hope that you will have empathy and not take it personally when it's really about them us.
Erfworld's unconventional media are part of its appeal. Just keep doing what you're doing, people who don't like it will remain skeptical and non-plussed no matter what you do... while, at this point, the people who are still on board with you will look forward to every update with enthusiasm, no matter what form they take.
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The errors of great men are more fruitful than the truths of little men. - Friedrich Nietzsche
In my boredom tonight, I browsed through these forums. I read/scimmed through many of the threads here and discovered three things primarily:
1) The nature of the discussion here is... interesting. Upon reading the rules, I can see why. As I am posting what I intend to be merely my take on things and give my .02 if you would, I'm constantly asking second-guessing whether or not I may be breaking some rule.
(that's just a observation btw, and actually meant as a positive one)
2) Wanda seems to be the hot topic around here, that and the nature of the 'game system'. Understandably so.
3) Most people don't like her.... WOW? Needless to say this shocked me, as she is the MAIN reason I have been continuing to read the comic.
Upon reading this post I felt inspired to register an account to make dang sure that the other side of this coin is shown. And that your work is appreciated.
Although I play alot of RTS games and alot of RPGs, apparently I haven't been playing the same ones you have: I don't get many of your references.
Nonetheless, I find that I'm extremely interested in your comic because of the dynamic storyline, interesting characters and the strange way your mixing reality with some kind of RTS game.
I, personally, find Wanda to be an extremely interesting character and the way you tell your story in-and-of-itself to be driving my interest in the comic. Her unapologetic sexuality, her intelligence and wit, her dry humor and subtle emoitions. I like the subtle comments made with her 'fashion show', as well as the great art and ideas it produces. Please don't let the nay-sayers soil what I believe is a great artistic vision.
Most of your fans don't read these forums or comment, people online generally say something if they find fault or want to get involved with it. Alot of people just read and enjoy your comic, and keep comming back to do it again. They don't post anything here to counter all those that would criticize, pick apart or "backseat drive" your comic because they don't see anything wrong, and just want to enjoy the status quo. That doesn't mean that your work, effort and vision are not valued.
While, in essense, I only speak for myself. Although I do not represent some kind of fanclub, I do strongly believe many people are in my position and would be extremely dissapointed/upset if you stopped, changed or were discouraged in your art because of a few overly vocal critics.
My only worry about your pacing is that the story is supposed to end soon. Which causes frownies and worries that the story will "fit". I've never had any other problem with things going slowly. I enjoyed the KLogs as a different form of the story. I don't know how you'll integrate it into the potential physical book, unless you do wind up making a cd or dvd of extras. The sexism charge is to be expected and dismissed. I love Wanda because we can't tell what she's really up to, not because of her sexuality or wardrobe, and I have my personal hope that she's actually a "good guy" to some extent stuck in the role of "evil villainess", in the same way that we see other decent-seeming people on team evil's side.
Hypersensitivity is a pretty common result of college-age reality, whether that's accurate in the recent poster's situation. There are well-meaning impulses under there acting on some generally legitimate ideas, just taken to extremes. I wasn't immune to that crusader zeal myself at the time. Honestly, I don't know how you can stand to read the forums without someone to filter out the chaff.
Rob, you have no idea who I am, so I doubt that this will mean as much to you as I wish it would, but, that said...
I read MANY webcomics (seriously, I'm sure there's some neurological disorder for it I'm unaware of) and Erfworld has intrigued me more than 99% of them. So far, I've been nothing but impressed with how you've told the story, and I have absolutely no qualms about saying so.
The internet is filled with pricks, as Shadow succinctly and eloquently put it. I can only hope that you don't let it get to you.
I do ask of you one thing. Try to keep in mind that the vocal minority is often just that, a minority. People who love the comic are often the ones who silently sit waiting for updates, read them intently, and then move on a little happier, waiting for the next one. Outspokenness is rarely an indicator of actual overall sentiment, and discontent is often the most common cause of outspokenness. Sadly, the discontent are often unable to be swayed no matter how hard you try, which is precisely why you should do exactly what you said. Do the best you can and ignore those who would try to bring you down.
I did as well, but I have to agree with Rob that their role in providing elements of necessary background for the battle (analogous to familiarity with the basics of D&D when reading Order of the Stick) is pretty much accomplished. That said, I hope there will be elements of the battle and aftermath that lend themselves to a few Klog entries before the end of this storyline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizara
3) Most people don't like [Wanda].... WOW? Needless to say this shocked me, as she is the MAIN reason I have been continuing to read the comic.
From context, I assume you mean "most people don't like her presence in the story" as distinguished from "most people find her unsympathetic". I just don't think the former statement is accurate; while that has been one of the reactions to the latest page, it looks to me like a distinctly minority viewpoint. The latter statement may have more truth to it -- after all, Wanda has done quite a few things that fit most people's definition of "evil" -- but, again, beside what I believe to be your point.
Quote:
Most of your fans don't read these forums or comment, people online generally say something if they find fault or want to get involved with it. Alot of people just read and enjoy your comic, and keep comming back to do it again. They don't post anything here to counter all those that would criticize, pick apart or "backseat drive" your comic because they don't see anything wrong, and just want to enjoy the status quo.
That's the common problem in any sort of public forum, yes.
__________________
"I like money. Money is better than murder...."
--Riley, Geist Panik
Threads for Erfworld icons, LOLErfs, and demotivators.
My avatar is Parson Gotti from Erfworld (written by Rob Balder and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi), smirking at Ansom.
It took me awhile, but I've really learned to keep my opinions to myself. When I've had things to say, I've tried to say only positive things, and if I had something really positive to say, I said it to Rob directly and kept the community out of it. But since this came up from Rob directly, I'd like to comment.
I'm part of the 90% that likes the klogs. In fact, I love them. I've told Rob this personally and I'll definitely miss them. Even though Rob didn't do the Klogs for me, personally, I felt they were making an effort to give us information we needed to help keep the story progressing without further slow down. The Klogs and the Hamsterd site are really great tools to help people get some extra enjoyment out of Erfworld. They're akin to DVD extras, and I love that about DVDs.
Erfworld really isn't the comic for me, people who know who I am know that. But I've come to learn the value of not pooping on someone's parade. I read this comic each week, whether I like what I'm reading or not. I feel I owe that to Rob for all the crap I put him through early on. You have to resepct a man who sticks to his guns and does what's best for their own creative property.
Anyway, this is the long way (my only way) of saying that I support Rob. Thanks for the Klogs, i've really enjoyed the writings and I hope there's maybe one or two more before the arc is over. If not, I'll enjoy what you've presented.
Sebastian, you have helped boost my faith in the human race one small and important notch.
I'm really sad to see the Klogs go. I hope we get them again, even as fillers - even if it was just a sketch of a dwagon and some notes about their stats or something. Or a hamstard comic. I just like little bits of insight into both Parson and the world.
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"River" cancels eat: Food is problematic.
I know I don't post on the Erfworld forum but let me tell you I have loved Erfworld so far and I liked the Klogs a great deal. I think it was a great way to give out info that would have been hard to put in the comic, and would have had to been stretched over many comics and most likely cut short. I think people who were complaining about them were just trying to get you to put out one more comic a week. I hope when you come out with the first book the will be a Klog like section explaining more about Erfworld's history and its people and other fun random thing honestly I would pay for a short book of that on its own as a companion to the whole series. Honestly I'm still hoping that you will make Erfworld in to a board game type thing were you build your army and invade the and take over land from the other player, I've been wanting something like that for a long time and I think Erfworld would be a great base for it.
Rob, I'm sorry that a few folks have you feeling as if you have to defende yourself here. From my point of view you certainly do not. You have a small cadre of readers here who'll be more than happy to swing the Big Stick of Justice for you. :)
I must say that Erfworld didn't grab me from the first strip, or the second, or the tenth. I think it was perhaps the strip in Parson's apartment right before he went *PLOT* that gave me a little tug and pulled me in a bit farther. The Klogs were indispensable in making me a fan of the strop to the point where I'm getting all fanboy geeky about seeing whether my strategy guesses turn out to be right!
As for the updates, well, you know we Erfworld fans are right there with you. There are ways around that, I suspect (double-length strips? Wahoo!).
Hang in there and know that your talent is admired.
I hope one day I get to meet you guys...if for no other reason than to buy you all an extra large pizza with everything on it...but i don't like shrooms. fishies, or pineapples, so you'll have to put that on your half...Awesome job on the comic. On a daily basis, I continue to work on my own stuff so that one day, I might have something as complete as what you two have done. Thank you again.
I'll also miss the Klog's a lot, especially since this will mean one less day of frantically checking the site every 10 minutes :).
I like Erfworld a lot and I'm still trying to understand why. I think that the best part of the comic (leaving the strangely captivating and personal style artwork aside) is the totally unpredictable script and events. Anything can happen at any moment, while still completely coherent with the previous content. We have a war and we don't have the slightest idea on who will or should win, on who we should root for or even on what the agenda of several characters is (Wanda, Jillian, Ansom...etc). That's priceless for a fantasy based story.
I was a bit surprised (even felt a little angry...) with the Wanda / Jillian issue, yet after I came to appreciate the surprise in caused me (btw, I still think there is no sexual stuff between them as weird as it might seem). I took the recent suggested sexual content in a similar way - maybe I was not pleased, maybe it was fansservice yet it was part of what makes Erfworld what it is. And it also made my perception of Wanda even more confuse (WHAT DOES SHE WANT AFTER ALL!!!).
I will keep checking the strip and expect to be surprised each time. I'll try to self censor my posts especially when dissatisfied. Yet let me give you a piece of advice. The post on sexism...etc was maybe annoying to you yet it was also something completely normal (as in "to be expected") on such a forum and such a topic. There will be others. If you let critic posts (more or less justified) to affect you then it is your loss. I thought with your experience level in webcomics you already bought that +20 Resistance to forum attacks Hat already .
i am really sorry to hear that you will not be doing the klogs.
i am part of the group that just reads your comic, but very rarely posts, to me your work speaks better then i could. Your work wonderful, the dynamic nature of all your char. and how they interact, i truly don’t know how you do it, but because of that 10% out here we miss out, i do not blame you for this though.
some time ago i was very active on many forums on the internet, a very vocal person under a couple different names, until i became very tired of defending my work from those that didn't understand what i was doing, or found more enjoyment by destroying the work i did, in turn destroying, my enjoyment in those activity. this reached a point where i withdrew from it completely. by their hand they have destroyed another persons enjoyment and i think that is the saddest thing of all.
i shall leave you with the advice i was given by a great man.
"any problem can be solved through the dedication of a calm mind”
Erfworld has been enjoyable, thus far. An interesting trip from the ordinary, to say the least.
You've been doing a good job, but from what I've read in this forum... You get too hung up on what vocal minorities voice. No matter what you do, they will inevitably come to try and rain on your parade. When you see someone dropping trow to lay a big steamer on your brainchild, you'd be the bigger man to straight up ignore it, rather than make a big deal of it.
I am quite aware how frustrating it gets to have people rag on your work for what seems like no reason, but it's much more mature to take anonymous internet ramblings with a grain of salt.
Keep up the good work, anyhow!
__________________
"78% of DM's admit to having started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that hasn't yet, stop fibbing."
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Festy
Thou hast exploded mine brain.
Congrats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Of Evil
Oh, I can't wait to start racking up the XP for you smelly apes.
Hey man, don't be bummed, I think you're so smart that I assume this post that looks like a whine actually has some kind of double meaning that only the coolest readers get, and if I'd only read Genet I'd know it and laugh secret French laughs.
I understand well the part about people giving "advice", that is pretty annoying, but reactions to a particular strip are to be expected. People start to have feelings for some characters and dislike for others. I think that is a good thing. I am deeply in the "Wanda is awesome" camp, but I think that getting an emotional response from people claiming she went too far is not necessarily a bad thing, even if they make it more or less clear that they think that I'm some sort of retarded teenager.
About the Klogs, I liked them a lot. There is the plot, the story, but there is also the game. They were great, and I hope there will be a few more.
Thanks for the headsup on the klog situation. I am one of the ones who will definitely miss them!
You referenced a new avatar being created, and its user attacking the strip. I feel compelled to mention that I also created an avatar (first time for the forums on this site), solely so I could get in on the great discussions, and give some praise to this strip.
Thanks to you and your co-creator for the work on this webcomic, I look forward to its continuing story!
Farrell
PS -- I liked the idea one of the other posters mentioned; of perhaps having an occasional klog that has a sketch of some unit or other, and a list of its stats. A series on the various Dwagons would be most appreciated!!
PS -- I liked the idea one of the other posters mentioned; of perhaps having an occasional klog that has a sketch of some unit or other, and a list of its stats. A series on the various Dwagons would be most appreciated!!
Oh oh! You know what would make sense? If Parson recorded the stats of the dwagons and warlords as seen through his Stupid Meal glasses. He's about to direct a battle with them, after all. He'll want a reference so that he can focus on analyzing, not remembering.
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My avatar is a remix that I made of Prince Ansom. Resource credit:
Well, every public place on the internet has this problem: those who are happy with the situation stay mostly quiet, while the unhappy minority screams and shouts.
I'll second the content of many of the above posts: If 90% of the people commenting on the internet like your work, that's a spectacular success rate.
It's certainly true that it's not fun to receive unwarranted criticisms and negative commentary. Unfortunately, there's really no way to avoid those in a public medium. Even the very best works get them. Therefore, the only alternative is not to create (or make your creations visible) at all.
I (and many other people) think that would be a shame, because Erfworld is really good! If you can, try to keep a thick skin on the internet, especially when creating something of value that many people clearly appreciate.
I like your work and I'm perfectly willing to wait for the dramatic moment or punch line. Just ingnor the the critics and do waht feels right to your art.
I LOVE your work Rob, I admit at first I thought it wasn't to good and was not enjoying it but at about the 30th strip I found myself hooked and wanted to find out more about this story! Don't mind if others put down your work, it happened to me allot in school. You are making a great story, keep up the good work!
If people don't like what they read, they can go read something else?
[scrubbed] People can post whatever impressions they want.
(Similarly, find a post offensive? They found your story offensive.)
(Here's an example of what I mean: Say you exist in some universe in which you read a comic, and it's filled with child porn, snuff, all sorts of people being gorily killed in all sorts of twisted ways. And people appreciate it, and it's a reflection of common real life fantasies in that world, or pop culture there, whatever. Wouldn't you feel obliged to go "wait a minute, folks -- this is disgusting"? Going off and starting one's own thing is one thing, but there would be a *purpose* towards writing up a post, conscious objection. You can say that Erfworld is an entirely different thing -- but some people clearly feel it *is* that disgusting, and imho if someone's that offended they've the right to object and publicly object. You can disagree with them, you can be sad someone feels that way -- that's your opinion, fine, but it doesn't alter the fact that they should have the right to object.)
Last edited by Roland St. Jude : 05-25-2007 at 07:04 PM.
I found the klogs to be informative, and in fulfilling their designed role, useful.
However, I always felt a bit of regret that you had to use them at all -- I felt like it was a friendly, helpful gesture to enlighten some of the readers that didn't deserve such a consideration.
Sure, the rest of us benefited as well. But don't feel like you have to acknowledge, much less address, the issues raised posters who will inevitably think (and say, loudly and publicly) that they know better. Quite simply, they don't.
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Shadowy Goodness since 1892.
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death, your friend the Reaper
Now we head around under the cover of night looking for threads that will most likely be locked, directing people to the new members thread, and fighting crime.
I hope one day I get to meet you guys...if for no other reason than to buy you all an extra large pizza with everything on it...but i don't like shrooms. fishies, or pineapples, so you'll have to put that on your half...Awesome job on the comic. On a daily basis, I continue to work on my own stuff so that one day, I might have something as complete as what you two have done. Thank you again.
PIZZA! *drooooool*
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Jamie Noguchi, artist and co-creator of Erfworld and evil monkey responsible for Angry Zen Master.
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No Klog for Thursday, and a short rant
Re: No Klog for Thursday, and a short rant
as weird as it might seem). I took the recent suggested sexual content in a similar way - maybe I was not pleased, maybe it was fansservice yet it was part of what makes Erfworld what it is. And it also made my perception of Wanda even more confuse (WHAT DOES SHE WANT AFTER ALL!!!).
Re: No Klog for Thursday, and a short rant
Re: No Klog for Thursday, and a short rant
