sides, if you associate 'masculine' with testosterone, and 'feminine' with estrogen, you could make a very easy argument that elves have low testosterone regardless of gender since they are seen as more feminine. This could actually lead to some interesting theoretical analysis of their fantasy psychology based off of the research on the long-term effects of testosterone (mostly correlations, and thus non-conclusive), but I'll make a simple anaylisis and say that since all elves are typically portrayed as less masculine, that all elves have a lower average level of testosterone, and thus as an elf, V thinks of most human men as being 'masculine' since, compared to almost any elf, almost any human man IS masculine.
... ok, that was a long psuedo-scientific rant, and I think I looped myself, so recap: elves tend to be portrayed as being feminine, as such V. can (almost) safely assume that a human man will be more masculine then himself.
Note: my use of himself and other pro-nouns in regards to V. does not indicate any belief of V.'s gender that I may have. I'm just lazy.
Arrogance, garrulousness, long pretentious rants? Oh man, I sure know members of both sexes who do that. ::waves::
Likewise, mocking "masculine pride"? That's just being smart and tactless, not gendered.
Haley's roommate? V is Haley's best buddy in the party, so they room together. And Haley's not the most uptight of women, either, one gathers. Moreover, V is married -- maybe elves are properly monogamous and thus it's a non-issue, who knows?
-us ending? Well, Finwe nailed it. No need to say more.
I also liked the point about V's player not bothering to figure it out; I didn't settle on a gender for my last character until I picked a relevant and mellifluous Quenya root for the name and decided that the -on ending sounded better.
You're all on the wrong track here: elves clearly just don't care about that, unlike you silly humans. And I'm *positive* that V's spouse is equally ambiguous, and possibly biologically the same, just by the Giant's unbreakable rules of AWESOME.
Doctor, on the other hand...you rock like whoa. As does V, who is indisputably hawt (but that's another thread). W00t, genderqueer for the win. ;D
New (old really) fuel for the fire. I was looking back through the "origins" thread on the first page, and somebody linked to the ORIGINAL OOTS thread. And on this page, 4th from the bottom, Rawbear makes this assertion:
Sorry, Bogotter, I don't know if Rich was using these when you guys played years ago, but he's been using stick figure minis against us for a while, and i've come to learn that all of his female avatars have apparent breasts.
You don't know that. You are only drawing that conclusion based on previous examples. For all you know, I deliberately decided to create a sexually-ambiguous elf; in such a circumstance, I would clearly break my own "rules" on how I drew them. :P
Except there has been quotes since then saying that V's ambiguity was NOT intended (somebody please re-link that... I suck at searching), but rather something he saw on the messageboards, and then ran with.
Nothing's conclusive (or this debate would never have gone on this long), but this is definitely more fuel for the "V's Male" fire. Or at the least, originally INTENDED to be male.
Am I the only one who almost hopes we never find out (or at least not until the very end)? There are so many absolutely hilarious situations this debate can get the OOTS into, and the Giant's touch with the whole issue is so fantastic, I'll be just as happy with the mystery.
Also, I wonder if V is deliberately hiding his/her gender, or if s/he just acts and dresses the way s/he wants to (do you pick your clothes out based on what gender they make you look? I don't; I go based on comfort, color, and style, not gender appropriateness) without regard to what other people think? I mean, if memory serves, s/he's been fairly evasive on the subject in the past, but nobody's ever come right out and asked, either. If we assume that elven attitudes toward gender and sexuality are different than human ones, isn't it possible that they just don't care at all, and can't really understand that humans do unless it gets spelled out for them?
"There is no mistaking a real book when one meets it. It is like falling in love." ~ Christopher Morley
I say (backed up by multiple people, none of whom post) that 123: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/Gian...tscript?SK=123
proves it that V is Female. *Also, hayley, who is as far as we can tell, V's best friend, says "the boys" referencing the others, NOT V.
Aww... look at the cute little signature!
on Nov 4th, 2003, 12:33pm bogotter wrote:
So what would happen if Pat (or Vaarsuvius) put on the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity? Hmmmmm?
I've been going over some of the older posts and noticed this, thought I'd bring it up
(Pat was something they where discussing at the time)
Lord\'s Prayer (sindarin)&&Ae Adar nín i vi Menel&&no aer i eneth lín&&tolo i arnad lín&&caro den i innas lin&&bo Ceven sui vi Menel.&&Anno ammen sír i mbas ilaurui vín&&ar díheno ammen i úgerth vin&&sui mín i gohenam di ai gerir úgerth ammen.
Excuse my political incorrectness, but there is a difference between men and women. There are agressive women and 'feminine' guys, but these are not standard. On average the two genders react similiary to certain situations, which are different than what the other gender would.
Some of this is cultural, other biological. So for the love of Pete (or Petra, you'll have to ask The Doctor ::) ), everyone puh-leeze quit with the 'thats just how humans act'. Yes, male humans act one way, female humans another, generally speaking.
Aaaanyways, I always thought V was a guy, but now I could see it both ways. I hoenstly don't see how this has stretched to over a hundred pages however...
V is male, that I am certain of. No breasts, male eye position (upper third of the face as opposed to middle for females). He sure is (from a human point of view) as gay as they come. Yet that's just plain elven, although it could still be, even with him being married. For all we know (or rather don't), it could be a gay marriage. That last bit also conveniently explains why he shares a room with Haley without removing the point that he is male.
V is male, that I am certain of. No breasts, male eye position (upper third of the face as opposed to middle for females)
Actually, it has been shown in a previous thread that V's eyes are in a gender neutral position on his head, however I can't locate the link at the moment. The eye thing has been mentioned numerous times in the other V's gender debate threads though. (Not the casual one that I know of... yet.)
The truth? Rich hasn't created a designated gender, so not even he knows. It's just for added comedy. It's still funny from the characters's perspectives. Just as we all know Pat from SNL is technically female (played by Julia Sweeney), but still (don't) laugh because the characters are clueless. Unless Rich has modeled it after someone, V is, in fact, an "it".