OOTS #352 - The Discussion Thread

[Vargtass]

Originally Posted by kyrin

I'd say that was the point in the gaming session when the DM just kinda stares at the player.

Player: *"I'm casting Weather Control"
DM: *(wrinkles brow) "Okay, what do you want to do?"
Player: *"Create a huge lightning bolt, but concentrate all the thunder in a 10' radius, centered on Leaky."
DM: *(agog) (sputter) "Allright, somebody get me a Player's Handbook. *WITH Errata!"

That's it!

[DougTheHead]

My take on the whole speed of sound "controversy:"

Yeah, the distance of lightning is calculated as one mile for every 5 seconds until you hear the the thunder, or one mile for every 4.7306 seconds if you want to be an ******* about it.

So why did Giant have Durkon count to "Four Miss'ssippi?"

Because as kids, before we knew what the speed of sound was, before we knew that we could calculate the correct equation by setting light as instantaneous and changing the units of the speed of sound to miles per second, we were always told to count off with "Mississippi." It's recognizable to everyone, even those of us who now know better. Since the Giant never explicitly says that the thunder is causing all that sonic damage, Durkon doing Mississipi counting is the Giant's way of reminding us that thunder comes after lightning.

Ye gods. I come to the message board and find people debating physics in a comic strip! Wile E. Coyote would be appalled.

[Amaya_saba_Sheriza]

Wonderful comic.. really :)
the best ever !!

[Finwe]

Originally Posted by KeiranHalcyon

That said, there are several possible explainations for the comic:

• The speed of sound is different in OOTSland. Certainly plausible, since V and others make a point of "telling the laws of physics to sit down and shut up" routinely.
• Leeky was wrong about the distance.
• Gnomish miles and/or OOTSland miles are shorter than real-world miles.
• It takes a much longer time to say "Miss'ssippi" in Durkon's accent than it does for a normal human.
• Rich flubbed. He's done it before. With the material he puts out being as funny as it is, I forgive him.

[*]It was done for the sake of a joke

[c_olsen73]

Does anyone remember when Rich was talking about things moving at the "Speed of the plot"? I think that rather than debating physics here, we could just assume that the Giant allows all things to move at the speed of the plot.
And on a different note, does anyone else think that Roy is going to get to pwn both pompeii and that fiendish bi*** next strip?

[Dragon_Rider]

Its rather simple, people. Sound may move at 1 mile per 5 seconds but the general folklore spread, especially on the east coast, is that you count by mississippi, and its one "mississippi" per mile. That's what Rich was going by because he knew people would recognize that rather than having Durkon count to 20, which most people would have been utterly confused about.

[sakusha]

I just noticed that Julia comments she wants to find someone more competant than Roy ("Shouldn't be TOO hard...").

And then found Durkon.

I think that's one goal met for the day. ;D ;D ;D

[fangthane]

First point: *by making wildly inaccurate statements about the way sound waves propagate in an atmosphere (1 second per mile) the people making such statements bring the physics discussion on themselves; in a forum such as this, who could possibly expect such ignorance to go unchallenged? *In short, if silly things are said on the internet, those who say them shouldn't be surprised when they're called on it.
Edit - when I was 8, I was told to divide by 4 or 5 - I never found it that tricky, really... :)

Second point: There's no reason V need have been "in on" some plan involving lightning and thunder; indeed, I took the smile to indicate a complete understanding that in the wake of such an enormous column of lightning must come a correspondingly loud crash of thunder - no more than I'd expect from a pompous windbag like V who has, historically, a well-developed understanding of science in addition to magic.

Third point: Unless there's something I'm missing in the R.A.W., casting from a scroll requires a standard action regardless of the time it'd ordinarily take to cast a spell - at least, I couldn't find an indication that spells with long cast times take longer to read from a scroll. *That's a good thing, because I'm not sure V could survive 100 consecutive rounds of damage from the trees.

Fourth point: Depending on the roleplaying involved, I'd be half-inclined to allow a cleric in Durkon's position to spontaneous-channel a bunch of his spells in addition to the scroll, in order to produce a one-time, powered-up, "I haven't tossed a bolt THAT big in a while, mortal" kind of effect. *Deus ex machina, perhaps, but extremely situational, appropriate to the deity involved, and not the sort of thing Thor would be inclined to grant again any time soon. *It does look like he spent about 3-4 rounds (based on what we see in the comic, anyhow) casting it so perhaps that's him channeling Thor's power to enhance the scroll's effect.

I just find myself wondering whether Xykon heard that blast, and how many buildings/people survived it. *:)

Fifth point: As to the speed of sound, it's unlikely to be substantially lower than normal because humans can breathe the atmosphere, and speed of sound varies as the ratio of density to stiffness and the stiffness of a gas doesn't vary all that much. *By the same token, it can't be too dense or people'd get the bends walking up hills (and there'd be puddles of nitrogen). *Thus, the speed and general behavior of sound in a magical environment is identical to that in ours - except where specifically counterindicated by said magic, of course. (e.g. silence, sound stops moving; message, sound teleports, and so on)

[Evik]

that....was awesome :)

[kunou126]

What amazes me is people seem to think that dropping in quick comments like "great comic" count as "discussing" the comic.

I like the "asymmetical runt" comment, due to the half-elf only having one elf ear. It's a subtle joke but good for a chortle.

Didn't care for the "boobs" joke, but the follow-up line about "works with my teachers" was good. And I like how she assumes Durkon is gay cause his concentration check held against her breast attempt at getting his attention.

[sakusha]

Originally Posted by Fangthane

Third point: Unless there's something I'm missing in the R.A.W., ...

What on earth is "the R.A.W."?

[Goofy]

Rules as Written. It's a term used meaning as the Good Book is literally, rather than as the DM interprets or as people commonly play.

[battleburn]

Originally Posted by Fangthane

Fifth point: As to the speed of sound, it's unlikely to be substantially higher than normal because humans can breathe the atmosphere, and speed of sound varies as the ratio of density to stiffness and the stiffness of a gas doesn't vary all that much. By the same token, it can't be too dense or people'd get the bends walking up hills (and there'd be puddles of nitrogen). Thus, the speed and general behavior of sound in a magical environment is identical to that in ours - except where specifically counterindicated by said magic, of course. (e.g. silence, sound stops moving; message, sound teleports, and so on)

It's not the magic itself that makes the sound go faster. It's the belief system. As I mentioned on the previous page.

[Aliquid]

Originally Posted by battleburn

It's not the magic itself that makes the sound go faster. It's the belief system. As I mentioned on the previous page.

Unfortunately, some people seem to find it very difficult to accept a belief system different than their own.

People don't seem to be able to imagine a world where the laws of physics don't apply. It's just too different of a concept for them to process.

People prefer to think of a fantasy environment as being a place where magic can be used to defy the laws of physics. So, unless a spell clearly and specifically says othewise, the laws of physics apply.

[humanpylon]

Originally Posted by Fangthane

Third point: Unless there's something I'm missing in the R.A.W., casting from a scroll requires a standard action regardless of the time it'd ordinarily take to cast a spell - at least, I couldn't find an indication that spells with long cast times take longer to read from a scroll. *

question from the ignorant. *What does R.A.W. mean?

Never mind. The ignorant just read the answer a few posts above. :-[

[fangthane]

Originally Posted by battleburn

It's not the magic itself that makes the sound go faster. It's the belief system. As I mentioned on the previous page.

I don't like this explanation; it doesn't explain why evil fails to completely overwhelm good. I don't think anyone would argue the premise that there are about a bazillion times more goblins and orcs than there are goodly sentients, even letting alone any other "Usually Evil" races. And if they all believe in Evil's ultimate superiority, there'd be nothing anyone else could do about it. I prefer to think that Thor used his divine prerogative and made the big badaboom.

[kunou126]

There's a reason the boom did a ton of damage that completely falls in line with DnD and source materials: * House rules!

[Kish]

Originally Posted by Fangthane

I don't like this explanation; it doesn't explain why evil fails to completely overwhelm good. I don't think anyone would argue the premise that there are about a bazillion times more goblins and orcs than there are goodly sentients, even letting alone any other "Usually Evil" races. And if they all believe in Evil's ultimate superiority,

See, that's where you're going wrong. There is no "Evil's ultimate superiority" they all believe in. Lawful Evil isn't the only evil alignment, and evil creatures are as likely to consider each other enemies as they are to consider good creatures enemies. Most D&D orcs believe in the superiority of Gruumsh and his philosophy; those who aren't at least part-orc who worship Gruumsh are very rare.

(I also don't think "evil intelligent creatures vastly outnumber good intelligent creatures" is anywhere near as much of a given as you claim.)

[Fillbert]

Enough of this Speed of Sound debate..... or even the Speed of Light........

New topic: What's the Speed of Dark? ;)

[Haarculaneaum]

YOUR MOM!

You pansy,
You're missing game
RIGHT NOW!

Haar