Maybe the king deserves to be assassinated, they don't appear to be evil assassins after all. Chaotic for sure, but not evil. And I thought the whole pre-requisite of being a real assassin was that you had to be evil.
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I do understand Miko's pain. She's been working with people who have, in one form or another, been openly hostile from the day they met (whether it's open combat, sexual harrasment, or getting ridiculously inflated bills for a relatively simple service). Whether or not they have reason to be upset doesn't help with the feeling of isolation.
I think that the reason the OotS is upset with Miko is a good proof that she doesn't actually care that she is in 'isolation' ; if she didn't like being isolated from them then she would have treated them very very differently. But as a Paladin raised in a monastery, she hasn't developed any actual interest in socialising with people (and it doesn't help that the current people are criminals to her lord's eyes).
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Originally Posted by Grey Watcher
So, Miko at last sees a chance to open up to one of her current companions, only to get the verbal kick in the teeth. Yes, she deserved, and she's smart enough to realize that, which probably just makes it hurt all the more.
It may be that way, but for someone to be hurt like you say, it means that she genuinely cared for him in the first place. Personally I don't think she said that because she felt any need to open up to someone, but rather because she was attracted to Roy physically (much like the man himself) but she was just too self-righteous to give in to someone who doesn't treat her the exact way she wants him to (read:to someone who calls her "baby" and "honey" all the time). So now that he apologised, she thinks that Roy will be exactly as he wants him to be, always taking her side and always treating her in the best way possible. She is disappointed that Roy is not her puppy, sure, but I don't really think she felt anything substantial for him in order to be hurt.
Although now that he went against her so brazenly and unexpectedly, who knows? She might acquire a newfound interest for him ;)
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78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Where did you start yours?
Two of the players started in a forest (one of them inside a cave as a prisoner by Trolls) and the other two inside the city just before an inn caught fire.
Maybe the king deserves to be assassinated, they don't appear to be evil assassins after all. Chaotic for sure, but not evil. And I thought the whole pre-requisite of being a real assassin was that you had to be evil.
They aren't actually Assassins, as in the Prestice Class, the same way that Miko trained as a samurai but did not take the Samurai Prestige Class :P We know that one guy was a ShadowDancer, while the other's class probably is something related to his lots of Profession(Pyrotechnics) ranks 8)
PS - Haley's expression and hug on Roy in the last panel is way cute :) :)
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Adventurer from birth till death.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Where did you start yours?
Two of the players started in a forest (one of them inside a cave as a prisoner by Trolls) and the other two inside the city just before an inn caught fire.
I think Roy was actually being rather sadistic. It's quite clear to me that his entire intention of his apology here was to lead up to that insult, which is rather expertly delivered to hurt someone the most after they've lowered their defences and starting feeling empathy and forgiveness towards that person.
Miko, being the type of person she is, appreciates the honesty, accepts the apology and forgives Roy, and acknowledges his own recent hardship. Then, admiring even more the only person (possibly besides Durkon) in this gang of criminals who has ever shown her any kind of support or kindness, opens up with a minor flirt of her own, albiet rather stiff, formal and clumsy, but what can you expect from someone who's come from a paladin/monk monastry. (That's a double dose of Lawful Good strict formality and regulations)
And thus Roy's set the stage for what his original intention was. A quadruple combo flat-out rejection, harsh insult, declaration that he is no longer on her side and reality shock for someone with very little outside social experience. Well done Roy, I'm not even sure Belkar could pull that off.
Yes, she's a harpy. She's also a person who has been brought up and lives among like minded highly righteous and devoted people and is now escorting a group of criminals and trying to get them to also see the light and repent their actions, as she's been taught. Yes, something needed to be said, but I don't think a cruel and intentional insult was it.
Ooh, well done Roy, that was a masterpiece:) I salute you:) Heheh I was waiting so long for him to finally regain his spine and here it is:) Very cute;)
I assume most parties you play with aren't good aligned.
Let's also remember that Belkar wouldn't even have been near the dynamite if Miko's own steed hadn't gone and hired an attorney. It's not like Miko's steed was in any real danger, being in the Celestial planes and all. Windstrider purposely antagonized Belkar and it got the whole place burned down.
Now, I'm not anti-Miko, although I do think she could use being taken down a peg. Roy did what he had to do, 1) to regain the trust of his team and 2) to make the mental break from Miko real to himself. It was at Miko's expense, but she's a stoic. She can handle it.
If at some point, Miko shows a little compassion, then Roy can apologize for his harsh words. But Miko does concentrate more on the Lawful side of her alignment than the Good side. She'll need to show a little awareness of her own flaws before Roy needs to apologize for his words.
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She did not "deserve" it. *At least, she didn't deserve the delivery. *He could have simply said "the feeling has passed" or something.
*Well Roy has to have one Stat that isn't 14+...
Apparently it's Charisma.
Roy is sincere in his apology, he feels the need to make amends for the slights he's mae against Miko.
Miko's had no reason to treat the OOTS so badly since they're willingly following her, and let's face it the six of them could tear her to pieces barring another rainstorm.
Oh and as for the LG point of view. Miko is the negative sterotype of paladin's (which I revile), whereas Roy is a more sensible version of LG (or perhap the western point of view). In essence Roy is a better paladin than Miko if only because he shows more respect for others than she does.
Actually, no. She knows all but Belkar are Not Evil. There is a difference. And what has she seen? That Haley is obsessed with wealth, that Vaarsuvius considers helping others a waste of his/her time and effort, that Roy thinks every female warrior's first name is "baby," and that Elan could drive a saint crazy. She has every reason to guess they're mostly Neutral (except for Durkon, who she gets along famously with, and possibly Elan, who is rather obviously devoid of malice or self-interest).
Don't forget, she knows that V would celebrate her death with a rousing chorus of "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead"
I think Roy was actually being rather sadistic. It's quite clear to me that his entire intention of his apology here was to lead up to that insult, which is rather expertly delivered to hurt someone the most after they've lowered their defences and starting feeling empathy and forgiveness towards that person.
Miko, being the type of person she is, appreciates the honesty, accepts the apology and forgives Roy, and acknowledges his own recent hardship. Then, admiring even more the only person (possibly besides Durkon) in this gang of criminals who has ever shown her any kind of support or kindness, opens up with a minor flirt of her own, albiet rather stiff, formal and clumsy, but what can you expect from someone who's come from a paladin/monk monastry. (That's a double dose of Lawful Good strict formality and regulations)
And thus Roy's set the stage for what his original intention was. A quadruple combo flat-out rejection, harsh insult, declaration that he is no longer on her side and reality shock for someone with very little outside social experience. Well done Roy, I'm not even sure Belkar could pull that off.
Yes, she's a harpy. She's also a person who has been brought up and lives among like minded highly righteous and devoted people and is now escorting a group of criminals and trying to get them to also see the light and repent their actions, as she's been taught. Yes, something needed to be said, but I don't think a cruel and intentional insult was it.
Perhaps, as someone pointed out, that's the tactician in Roy at work, although he had no way of knowing that his apology would cause her to open up to the possibility of romance, since this is the first time she's even shown that she's AWARE of Roy's interest. I think Roy's apology was sincere, and it also put him in the perfect position to put Miko down. He's just demonstrated intelligence, maturity, sensitivity, honesty, and dispassion. Even if Miko comes to hate Roy for what he's just said, he still delivered it a the exact moment when her feelings toward him had begun to soften, and thus, whether she cries or rages or simply tries to bury whatever she feels in a pile of stoic righteousness, what Roy just said is going to stick, I think.
<snip>I think the reason I'm more symathetic to Miko than many of you is because I think the fact that the Order of the Stick seems to have "damaged the structure of Reality" by destroying that magic portal may turn out to be a very serious plot twist. Just because we all think Elan is a lovable character does not change the fact that he may very well have done something vitally important and horribly destructive, by pushing that button. Rich has a plotline in mind for his world, and it may well be that by pushing that button, Elan started a chain of actions that will lead to the total destruction of the world that the Order of the Stick inhabits. If it turns out that destroying the portal is a disaster, *will you still think Miko's somewhat negative reaction towards the Order was unreasonable?
Well, yes. *You might be right in saying that Elan's actions might destroy the OOTs universe but how does that affect Miko's reaction? *Are you saying she is able to foresee the outcome of his actions in advance?
She's been working with people who have, in one form or another, been openly hostile from the day they met (whether it's open combat, sexual harrasment, or getting ridiculously inflated bills for a relatively simple service). *
I think I'd be openly hostile to someone who attempted to pass judgement and punishment (execution) on me without telling me what it was I was supposed to have done and/or listening to my side of the story at the first meeting.
I think I'd be openly hostile to someone who attempted to pass judgement and punishment (execution) on me without telling me what it was I was supposed to have done and/or listening to my side of the story at the first meeting.
True, but given that most people around here don't like her, I was sort of playing Miko's advocate for a moment. Both the Order and Miko have very valid reasons for being upset with each other, and I think it's safe to say that, with the possible exception of Durkon, nearly everybody got off on the wrong foot with Miko, and Miko got off on the wrong foot with everybody. In short, this relationships were pretty much doomed from the start. :P
Well, yes. *You might be right in saying that Elan's actions might destroy the OOTs universe but how does that affect Miko's reaction? *Are you saying she is able to *foresee the outcome of his actions in advance?
Elan has already destroyed the universe - or at least set the ball in motion. He will probably be exonerated once it is realized that Xykon would have destroyed the world instead, but until the turth is out..
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I think she needed to be put back to her place. Of course it was kinda harsh but would she had listen to anything softer? And at any other moment?
I don't believe so. Let's just hope she'll better herself.
(Oh... Haley's expressions were exactly mine. She's so cool ;D)
I don't think I've seen this speech from Elan brought up (episode 231):
Quote:
No, she's really mean, Roy. To me, and to Vaarsuvius, and to you, too. You just pretend she's not for some reason.
Elan's dumb, but he's good. And nice. And if he says Miko is mean, I think he's right. The only way I'd think Roy had gone overboard is if Elan (or maybe Durkon) told him so.
Since we got a double comic yesterday, does that mean no comic today?
In the formerly stickied, now locked thread, the Giant said.
Quote:
The Sunday night comic will BE the Monday comic. Wednesday's comic will post on Wednesday morning.
Basically, due to a software error, there was no Comic Friday, so, to help us feel better, we got Friday's and Monday's as a double header last night, and regular posting will resume on Wednesday.
I rooted for her when she told the Order that they were coming with her. She was cool and aloof, but she had reason to be. I proclaimed myself pro-Miko when she upstaged the Order in the fight against the ogres.
But she still got what she deserved.
You can like someone, and yet at the same time, see them get taken down a peg, realize they deserved it, and feel good about it.
__________________ 1. Have fun. It's only a game. 2. The GM has the final say. Everyone else is just a guest. 3. The game is for the players. A proper host entertains one's guests. 4. Everyone is allowed an opinion. Some games are not as cool as they seem.
I don't think I've seen this speech from Elan brought up (episode 231):
Elan's dumb, but he's good. And nice. And if he says Miko is mean, I think he's right.
"Mean" is a subjective term. Elan, for example, obviously didn't consider this to be mean. You know what? I disagree with him. I'd be willing to bet Roy did at the time, too. Elan is simply childishly selfish and has a catastrophically bad Wisdom, so that "mean" in his mind goes with "snapped at me for insisting she must have levels of a samaurai class," and doesn't go with, "the time I drew all over Roy when Roy was helpless." Saying she must be objectively mean because Elan says she's mean is treating Elan like his lowest stat, Wisdom, is actually an 18.
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Spoiler
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
She won't. She'll suck it up and bury it deep. She'll be morose and sullen and worse than usual. At the worst possible moment, she'll bring it up again when Roy and the others will have thought she's forgotten all about it. She's a woman. We do that.
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On the whole idea of "Miko as a police officer", I'd point out that she did, after all, investigate the group before she passed judgement. She gathered several witness statements (including ones from the flumphs, who are known to be LG) which indicated that the Order of the Stick were horrible people. When she arrived on the scene, she did her own investigation, via Detect Evil. She found them to be MASSIVELY evil, already guilty of destroying the gate, and several other crimes; killing them was within reason, based on what she knew. When presented with counter-evidence (through Durkhon), she desisted.
__________________ The Cranky Gamer Nexx's Hello
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*"I" is an English pronoun in the nominative case of first person singular. It does not indicate the actions or writings of anyone but the first person, singular.
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*LVDO ERGO SVM
She only desisted from massacring them. She didn't desist from taking them against their will. I mean sure they went "willingly" but if they had said no, what would she have done?
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Re: Order of the Stick: November II
