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Old 03-26-2008, 01:49 AM   Top  -  End  -  #421
Zeb The Troll
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

*Zeb enters the auditorium from the side and walks up to the podium*

Lords and Ladies, Rebels and Loyalists, can I have your attention please?

The results are in. I have the votes here in this envelope, which has been hermetically sealed and kept in a jar of mayonnaise on Funk and Wagnalls porch since noon.


*he pulls an envelope from somewhere under the podium and holds it up, then opens it*

From Judge #1 - Loyalists
From Judge #2 - Rebels
From Judge #3 - Rebels
From Judge #4 - Loyalists

Hmm, seems we have a close vote here. There's only one more vote to count. Whichever story this judge voted for will be declared the winner. And that vote ... will be revealed right after this commercial break. Stay tuned, we'll be right back.


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Welcome back to the show. Are we ready to hear who the last judge voted for? Yeah? Alright!

Judge #5 - Loyalists


*the crowd bursts into cheers and jeers*

That's right, ladies and germs, this is a momentous occasion. This marks the first time that the Loyalists have won a game of Rebellion!

((And it came right down to the wire. It should be noted that each of the judges also commented on how both stories were very good and it was tough to choose one over the other. Good job, guys.

Now that I think about it, this is also the first time that I've seen a game come down to literally the last player standing. But I guess that's because other games have the "bad guys" win when it gets down to a draw.

Now, in keeping with tradition, I'd like to open the floor to comments and suggestions about the game. What did you like? What needs improvement? It seems like we've got the balance thing nailed down pretty well, I'd say, but that doesn't mean that there can't be some tweaking.

I'll start off. Should I add a rule about a draw going to the Rebels, like other games, or was this an acceptable resolution? Should I write this particular resolution into the rules or try to come up with something else creative next time, if there is one?

And finally, from both of us, thanks to everyone. You all played a great game and kept us both entertained the whole time. Thanks also for your patience with this unforeseen limited internet access. I'm going to ask Alarra to draw up some trophies for this. It probably won't be as many as the other games sometimes give out but keep your eyes on the thread for a couple of days if you're interested in seeing what we come up with.))
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:25 AM   Top  -  End  -  #422
Fleeing Coward
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Good game all, and congrats to the loyalists for finally winning one and thanks to Zeb and Alarra for running a wonderful game.
While the rebels expected a victory in a rebel vs loyalist situation when both were nobles, it's still a nice little twist and made for an interesting situation in a boring endgame.

Personally, I'd prefer that the rules be the same as other games as it would be a deadlocked final vote. This one situation this would be a good alternate solution thoguh is in a rebel peasent vs noble loyalist final day as in that case, both would technically lynch/kill each other.

As for balance, I think it's about right although starting with only 4 rebels, it would be nice to maybe have the recruitment ability straight off the bat rather than on the third day before the cooldown since it is tied to the rebel leader. An unfortunate day 2/3 lynch would basically end the game for the rebels with the current rules, the chances of a rebel would lose then and there if something like that occured.

EDIT: As for the game, most of the early days, we just let each rebel decide for themself how to vote although in hindsight had we been abit more coordinated we had our chances to win this game before Freshmeat woke up.

Day 1: Not much happening, unfortunate that easyname jumped straight to my defense, figured it'd come back to haunt me in the future.

Night 1: We didn't attack the emperor or CotG as some suspected, we were abit slow in getting organised and just plain forgot to send in a kill/scry for the night.

Night 2: Initial plan was to scry Freshmeat and kill Shadow that we should have done on night 1.
Evnafets thought it would be too obvious a move to kill Shadow so we decided on a last minute switch for a random kill on SweetlikeLemon just in case Shadow was protected. Scried Pwenet instead on the off chance he's emperor since a couple of people believed that Freshmeat might be autolynched despite the fact that he has never been autoed.

Night 3: Recruited Zar Peter because we figured there'd had to be some reason he was defending Curly. Evnafets suggested we scry Dr. Bath which is what we did. When scry returned as gossip, we got our next night kill target.

Night 4: Ranna managed to get information on Fin been baner from Dr. Bath, found out that Freshmeat was heir from Zar Peter. Killed Dr. Bath as planned and scried Szilard to confirm our suspiscions that he was the Emperor.

Night 5: Little discussion that day, coincidentally both me and Evnafets send in a kill on Mordokai despite not having discussed anything. Ranna scried Mustiado as a mason. At this point we were feeling pretty confident that we had the game in the bag if we can survive another day without been discovered.

Day 6: Freshmeat woke up and by pure luck as far as I can tell picked evnafets and Szilard as kill targets. Had he picked anyone but Evnafets, we would probably have just gone along with it and just tried to recruit him that night as originally planned.
Evnafets decided to go for an open attack on Freshmeat's credibility and I decided to join in after he decided to target me when his kill the emperor plan failed.
Saw the plan wasn't working with about 12 hours left, decided on a last ditch effort to change his mind and save the game for us via MSN. Pointed out that evnafets was the one that foiled his plan to get Szilard killed and was unlikely to be rebel because of that but didn't push to much harder least he gets suspicious on why I was defending him so much. Spent the rest of the conversation just defending myself while trying to get an idea of who his other suspects.
Started praying after the conversation. Fortunately, he decided to change targets, went along with it initially but had always intended to change back Gwyn ap nud at the end for the peasent kill.

Night 6: Needed to successfully recruit to get to a draw/win situation, tossed up our options between Shishnarfne and Zombie Pixe. Settled on Zombie Pixe because I wasn't sure how Shishnarfne would react after how I ended Infection. Sent a pm to Zombie Pixe claiming we didn't need need his support to win but we're recruiting him anyways since he helped kill Gwyn. He accepted.

After that it was pretty much going through the motions of kill for kill although I think there might have been a few attempts at getting Freshmeat to take a leap of faith.
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Old 03-26-2008, 05:11 AM   Top  -  End  -  #423
Zeb The Troll
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

So instead of starting with a cooldown, make it so they can use it anytime they want, but with the two night cool down after that, right?
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Old 03-26-2008, 05:33 AM   Top  -  End  -  #424
Freshmeat
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

First things first: good game to everyone involved. I really enjoyed this one.

On balance:
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That's merely my view on things, at least. As my first game of Rebellion, I can say I really liked it. I must applaud the way in which you've set up things that almost every role has a different win condition, which means that just about everyone has a hidden agenda and will happily join, betray and join whichever group suits his needs best. So you can definitely count me in for Rebellion V.
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Old 03-26-2008, 05:35 AM   Top  -  End  -  #425
Fleeing Coward
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Yea, either that or giving the rebels an extra noble rebel at the start. Either way would give the rebels a fighting chance at least in case the rebel leader met an unfortunate early demise.

EDIT: I have to disagree on the balance, all 4 starting rebels were peasents which actually makes a huge difference as they could theoretically gain lynch control pretty quickly by recruiting a 5th peasent and the sheriff can just be night killed. This game wasn't exactly like most of the rebellion games as the peasents and nobles continually targeted the same person to execute/lynch. In a normal game, the rebels could have gained lynch control much quicker than what happened so the 2 scriers wouldn't have had as much time to scry out a rebel in time to prevent the unavoidable peasent lynch mob.
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Old 03-26-2008, 05:51 AM   Top  -  End  -  #426
Zeb The Troll
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Oddly enough, Zar Peter was recruited. At the start, there were NO noble rebels. Not by design either. There certainly could have been and were in past games but this time the randomizer made them all peasants.

Freshmeat - you have some valid points, and I was concerned about them in earlier versions but I decided to leave them because of what you mentioned, the possibility of recruitment of nearly anyone else in the game.

The Sheriff is one I'd like to play with a little more. He didn't really get used in this game at all and might have had more of an impact if he hadn't gotten autolynched early.
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:04 AM   Top  -  End  -  #427
Fleeing Coward
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

So the 4 peasents weren't by design but chance? I sort of figured that every rebel started as a peasent to make up for the significant dowgrade in their recruiting abilities which makes it harder for them to gain control of the peasent lynch.
Guess it makes sense though now that I think about it. It'd be too easy for the scriers otherwise.

Another idea that I've been thinking about - making a heir recruitment unrefusable. As Freshmeat mentioned, it's already hard enough to get the Emperor killed so I think it's only fair that if the rebels find a way to kill the Emperor, their chance of achieving their alternate win condition isn't foiled purely by the whim of an individual.
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:07 AM   Top  -  End  -  #428
Freshmeat
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Spoiler

I think it's good that all four initial rebels turned out to be peasants in this game. I think they'd have had a much harder time in a 3/1 or 2/2 setup.
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:31 AM   Top  -  End  -  #429
Fleeing Coward
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmeat_ View Post
I was pondering on what to do next (I definitely couldn't keep on pointing at Szilard because the need to kill an additional rebel was too high), when FC contacted me on MSN. Since I was assuming that he was a rebel anyway, I paid close attention to who he was protecting and why. His comments regarding evnafets seemed interesting enough to me that I realized that evnafets might actually be the rebel leader. From that point on, there was no way I could keep on pointing at him. If I got the rebel leader killed, I'd just get killed on the night thereafter and I'd lose.
You had already switched to pointing at me by then actually. I'm curious as to why you thought what I said about evnafets is interesting. All I said was that the list he posted to come up with who the emperor was made sense when you look at the other votes after which I even told you to lynch evnafets if you want to as I was just trying to save my own skin.

Quote:
However, I definitely wanted to send the rebels a signal, so I wanted to get another important rebel role lynched. The rebel spy, to be more precise. Thanks to my conversation with FC (where he pointed out that Ranna would be a good pick for a rebel spy because she could slip under the radar), I decided to follow up on precisely that suggestion and get her killed. Turns out that yes, she was the rebel spy.
Actually, you were the one that brought up Ranna been picked as a possible rebel and never once did I mention that she might even be the spy.
Obviously I wasn't going to tell you that the rebels weren't hand picked at that point as that'd just give me away. While I did say that she could be the sort of person an alpha would pick, the fact she was relatively new and unproven meant that it would be a high autolynch risk as you said yourself.
In fact, up until you decided to target her, I had believed that she was the only one that you havn't yet picked out as a rebel and I said as much in my last pm to the other rebels before you changed your points
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:39 AM   Top  -  End  -  #430
easyname
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Congrats on your win, Loyalists.

Sorry about day 1...
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:44 AM   Top  -  End  -  #431
Freshmeat
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeing Coward View Post
Actually, you were the one that brought up Ranna been picked as a possible rebel and never once did I mention that she might even be the spy.
Obviously I wasn't going to tell you that the rebels weren't hand picked at that point as that'd just give me away. While I did say that she could be the sort of person an alpha would pick, the fact she was relatively new and unproven meant that it would be a high autolynch risk as you said yourself.
In fact, up until you decided to target her, I had believed that she was the only one that you havn't yet picked out as a rebel and I said as much in my last pm to the other rebels before you changed your points
Upon rereading my logs for a moment, it seems that you are indeed correct. I must've mixed up some thoughts/conversations there. I believe I ultimately went after Ranna, hoping that she was indeed the rebel spy, because the less information the rebels would have, the more they'd be inclined to recruit me for the information I could offer them. In case I was wrong about all of you, there was still a good chance she'd be a rebel, because she could technically be with anyone (unlike some people whom I was sure about weren't in league with eachother -- at least not at certain points in time).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeing Coward
You had already switched to pointing at me by then actually. I'm curious as to why you thought what I said about evnafets is interesting. All I said was that the list he posted to come up with who the emperor was made sense when you look at the other votes after which I even told you to lynch evnafets if you want to as I was just trying to save my own skin.
To be honest, I put you on a bluff. Suggesting to lynch evnafets and easyname and drawing attention to Ranna being a likely rebel seems to fit that profile perfectly, although not everything was 100% clear to me at the time. What interested me was that you specifically suggested killing evnafets even after you gave the precise reasons as to why that wouldn't make sense (as he was trying to save the Emperor).
I was also assuming that if evnafets was a rebel indeed, he'd probably see how accepting death and not speaking up about Szilard would only further the rebel cause. When he didn't do so, I knew I was either dead wrong about him being a rebel, or that I had precisely picked out one of the main rebel power roles - one they didn't want to lose at any cost.

I probably should've just taken a gamble with Zar Peter and worked out some sort of plan with him beforehand. I don't expect he would've ever admitted to being a rebel though.

In this respect, I don't know if making a Heir recruitment unrefusable is a good idea. Half the fun in this game was whether I'd be given the chance to betray anyone, and if so, who.
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:45 AM   Top  -  End  -  #432
DarkLightDragon
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Very amusing.
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Old 03-26-2008, 08:51 AM   Top  -  End  -  #433
Zar Peter
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmeat_ View Post
I probably should've just taken a gamble with Zar Peter and worked out some sort of plan with him beforehand. I don't expect he would've ever admitted to being a rebel though.

In this respect, I don't know if making a Heir recruitment unrefusable is a good idea. Half the fun in this game was whether I'd be given the chance to betray anyone, and if so, who.
I was pretty sure that you only told me that you are the heir because you thought I'm a rebel.
In every PM about you with the rebels I made clear that, in my opinion, you WILL accept recruiting. Unfortunately I went on holidays just before the end of the game and couldn't effect the decisions anymore.
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:17 AM   Top  -  End  -  #434
Szilard
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

It was a good game, does the emperor usually last that long?
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Old 03-26-2008, 12:19 PM   Top  -  End  -  #435
Shadow
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmeat_
I voted for evnafets for several reasons. First of all, Shadow said he was suspicious of evnafets and - wouldn't you know it - if it wasn't for a last-minute kill-change, he would've been killed. That seemed a bit fishy to me, but was probably a coincidence after all.
I'd just like to throw out here the fact that I did this in the thread, before any of that stuff happened.

Any of what stuff you say?
The are people that know what I'm talking about.

I kept my word. Freshmeat_ has no clue what I'm talking about right now.
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Old 03-26-2008, 01:24 PM   Top  -  End  -  #436
Mustiado
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

So... I never actually intended on my story being the loyalists' story. I figured I'd submit it to S over there, and then we'd edit it with other ides, get some work done on it, and then put it up. I was pretty surprised when it went straight up without any input from the rest of the team. So sorry about that if anyone was putting something else up for consideration.

With that being said... YAY! It worked! That was a lot of fun guys, and I think I actually prefer the "Best story wins" ending to this game. Game mechanics be damned!
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Old 03-26-2008, 01:56 PM   Top  -  End  -  #437
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
I'd just like to throw out here the fact that I did this in the thread, before any of that stuff happened.

Any of what stuff you say?
The are people that know what I'm talking about.

I kept my word. Freshmeat_ has no clue what I'm talking about right now.
Just to clarify what Shadow is talking about, seeing as it doesn't matter anymore. On night 2 we originally decided to kill Shadow. I changed that later in the night (but still before dawn) to kill SweetLikeLemons. However Zeb had already sent a request to Shadow asking him to write his death scene.

I wasn't aware of this until Shadow posted the PM from Zeb in thread, using it as proof that he wasn't a rebel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
I've been expecting to die since then because a) that's the norm, so I never start a sheet until then -and- b) I was actually targeted by the rebels one night, but they changed at the last moment. I've been waiting until they do it again.
*Scrubbed*
I immediately PMed the narrators to complain as I considered this cheating.
- using a PM from the narrator as proof
- Shadow shouldn't have known he was targeted on night 2 in any case, and IMO even using that info as an argument was questionable.

My complaint resulted in Zeb's PM being scrubbed from Shadow's message. Zeb sent a PM to Shadow letting him know the narrators did not approve. Unfortunately he also included me in the "To" list for that PM, and also included my original PM (with name) in the message. Thus Shadow found out that I was the one who complained.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if someone complains about a post like that, he must be a rebel. Hence my role was outed to Shadow. Shadow promised not to use that information, or pass it on anywhere. I took him at his word, and he kept it.

case closed.
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:15 AM   Top  -  End  -  #438
Fin
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Yay! Congratulations Loyalists, would just like to thank Fleeing Coward for our big political debate the day we died. i couldn't have asked ofr a better opponent, although the Your Next Pm freaked me out somewhat

Also on the death of Dr Bath, he actually contacted me on the night of his death asking for protection but merely claiming he was the gossip's proxy I replied saying I would but he should really tell me who the actual gossip is, he died before he gave me a reply my decision to wait for a reply before alerting Zeb of my action was a mistake I apologise..

Anyway great game Zeb I really enjoyed it! Are there gonna be trophies!?
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:40 AM   Top  -  End  -  #439
Zeb The Troll
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

About Shadow knowing he was being targetted on Night 2...

It's not an uncommon thing for narrators to ask targetted players if they want to write their own death scene. I get asked all the time.

I did not request that Shadow do it, I simply asked if he wanted to.

It is uncommon for the bad guys to change their minds about the night kill after the order has been sent in.

Sometimes, when I've gotten all of the night actions in early, I'll end the night early to help the game progress faster.

As a result of Night 2, I will no longer end nights early and I will no longer ask targets if they want to write their own death scenes. If people want to write their own scenes, however, and I get them before they are actually killed, I'll be happy to post them.

Szilard - Yes, it is uncommon for the emperor to live that long.

Fin - I hope for there to be trophies, but with Alarra working furiously on her thesis right now and me having no artistic abilities whatsoever, that hasn't yet come to pass. I'll keep you posted on whether or not it actually will happen though.
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Old 03-31-2008, 08:57 AM   Top  -  End  -  #440
Fin
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Hey don't worry I know how it feels. My thesis is nearly Fin ((tee hee name pun)) And my university life will be coming to a close over the next few weeks and so I assume Alarra's is the same. Wish her luck that it comes along well for me.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:26 AM   Top  -  End  -  #441
Penguinsushi
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

ok, so *both* sides killed me off in the 'final scene' story? Nice to know I'm so loved...

...still, doesn't that seem kinda counter-productive, you know, since i was the loyalist...

~PS
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:19 PM   Top  -  End  -  #442
Szilard
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Well, that was a fun game, I liked being the emperor, it was a cool surprise for my first game.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:33 PM   Top  -  End  -  #443
Mustiado
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

You lived in mine, of course Penguin. You get the throne room and a cooler of sushi all to yourself. ?:)
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Writer of the winning scene for Rebellion IV - Thanks guys! Zeus Trophy courtesy of Phase. Who rocks.
CatMuffin Wolfwood courtesy of Onasuma.
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:44 AM   Top  -  End  -  #444
Penguinsushi
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustiado View Post
You lived in mine, of course Penguin. You get the throne room and a cooler of sushi all to yourself. ?:)
...I must have been reading that wrong then - i thought i fell off a balcony...

~PS
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:44 AM   Top  -  End  -  #445
Zeb The Troll
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Okay, folks, as promised...

This awards presentation will not be nearly as elaborate or detailed as that of Mafia with Andre, but here is what we've come up with (and Alarra drew).


For authoring the Rebel's story...



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For authoring the winning Loyalist's story...

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For being the last Rebel standing...


And finally, for spectacular game play which resulted in keeping his role a matter of speculation clear up until the very end, which resulted in the ultimate victory for the Loyalists and his being the last player standing...


I hope you all enjoyed playing the game as much as we enjoyed narrating it. I'll plan on starting another one here in a few weeks. I'll be looking for a different narrator, though, since it occurred to us, too late, that the odds are that if I can't post, neither can she so she's not an ideal candidate to back me up.
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Old 04-04-2008, 05:26 AM   Top  -  End  -  #446
Zar Peter
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Thank you very much! An awesome Zar picture!
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:39 PM   Top  -  End  -  #447
Mustiado
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

Woohoo! Awesome Zeb!

... Now how do I put it in my signature?
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Writer of the winning scene for Rebellion IV - Thanks guys! Zeus Trophy courtesy of Phase. Who rocks.
CatMuffin Wolfwood courtesy of Onasuma.
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:38 PM   Top  -  End  -  #448
Uncle Festy
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

[/unlurk]
Just copy the URL below, wrap [img] tags around it, and stick it in.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../goldenpen.gif
EDIT: ... or, you know, just quote the post and copy the code for the image.
[/lurk]
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Last edited by Uncle Festy : 04-04-2008 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 04-08-2008, 05:10 PM   Top  -  End  -  #449
Cobra_Ikari
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Default Re: Rebellion IV - Death of the Lich King (Day 10)

...wait. Rebellion? Wow. *hugs*
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