Did Starcraft steal from Warhammer or vice-versa or something?

[Serpentine]

I don't really know nor care, but this is a far more appropriate place for this discussion anyway For those curious, the debate that annoyed the hell out of me prompted me to start this thread seems to have begun here.

The debate as I understand it so far:
1. Yes, but that's okay.
2. Yes, and they suck for it.
3. Yes, and a whole lot of other places.
4. No, the other way round.
5. No, they're completely different.
6. No, from other people/products.
7. Yes, but they stole from them as well.

There you go lads/ladies. Enjoy.

[LBO]

1) and 3). (The first 3.)

[Seraph]

only on the surface. 40k is far more guilty of ripping off Dune, Aliens, the USSR, etc. to really have any right accusing others of ripping people off.

[Illiterate Scribe]

They may have done, but it doesn't matter; from an aesthetic perspective, WH40K far outclasses the others in its field. Also, in b4 rage.

[Closet_Skeleton]

You forgot one:

6. Yes but Games Workshop have since returned the favour.

[GoC]

You've got two 3s but either way I vote 7: They were developed independantly and don't "steal".

[Kacaier]

In my personal opinion (which I'm sure you all know I'd post! :P), I think StarCraft does have some Warhammer 40k elements. As well as reaching out in many more. Also to bring to the fact, Warhammer 40k is a major SciFi taker themselves.

But that's alright considering the nature of science fiction. There's no rabidness if people admit to WH40ks unoriginal elements instead of just pointing out StarCraft and yelling as loud as you can.

All fiction come from some inspiration, as it is the nature of our minds. We can't conceive what we don't know.

[Rutee]

Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton

You forgot one:

6. Yes but Games Workshop have since returned the favour.

...They have? Can ya explain that one for me?

[Kacaier]

Originally Posted by Rutee

...They have? Can ya explain that one for me?

I believe he's referencing the T'au, and I recall one post-2000 released Tyranid model.

[Rutee]

Erm. What about the Tau? There's a gap of information here, I think. They're.. space commies, right? What's that got to do with SC?

Though that'd be true, they probably do have at least a few Zergling inspired Nids..

[Kacaier]

Originally Posted by Rutee

Erm. What about the Tau? There's a gap of information here, I think. They're.. space commies, right? What's that got to do with SC?

Ehh, I think you guys have had enough of me ranting. So I'll just use preexisting rants. Take everything people say about how Protoss rip off T'au, switch it around, and there you go.

Originally Posted by Rutee

Though that'd be true, they probably do have at least a few Zergling inspired Nids..

I think the stuff going around was the Ravener of the Third Edition Tyranids in comparison with the Zerg Hydralisk.

[Rutee]

The Tau do come significantly after Starcraft, but don't people usually say the Protoss are Eldar?

[Zenos]

If the Tau are a ripoff of the Protoss I think it may be vengeance. Although I don't really see how the high tech, ranged fixated, non-psychic Tau have anything to do with the close combat-oriented, psychic Protoss.

[Kacaier]

Originally Posted by Rutee

The Tau do come significantly after Starcraft, but don't people usually say the Protoss are Eldar?

That's how it was originally, but some people who are newcomers to the Warhammer 40k franchise, like the ones who know it through Dawn of War, aren't aware of the release of the T'au. Through their own personal research, all they know is Warhammer 40k originally came out in 1987, thusly assuming all WH40k races came out at that time.

Anyhow, because of this, the comparison between Protoss and T'au are usually like this: They wear gold armor, are blue skinned, were originally in tribal warfare before uniting into a caste system, and make extensive use of robotics. I'm not specifically saying Games Workshop made a 'back-at-you' gesture towards, Blizzard, but those who argue the similarities of the two dig their own graves.

[Mr._Blinky]

Originally Posted by Rutee

The Tau do come significantly after Starcraft, but don't people usually say the Protoss are Eldar?

Yeah, but a lot of people also insist that the looks of the Protoss are ripped off of the Tau. Just look at the thread in question for numerous examples. Personally, I can see a barely superficial resemblance (neither have noses, and are a bit scaly looking), but people still try and make that argument. Which becomes totally moot because Protoss outdate Tau by a good three years.

Also, on the Protoss=Eldar thing, c'mon. They both have powerful tech, are psychics, and like melee. That's about the end of the similarities. For one thing, their societies are totally different. For two, the Eldar are Space Elves, while the Protoss are actually alien. Third, Eldar units have a tendency of being the squishy kind of high-tech, something nobody can accuse the Protoss off. And you can't really pull the "psychic aliens" card, because that's a pretty common element in sci-fi, same as the "melee aliens". The only one that leaves is the "Dark" versions of both, and those are extremely different as well, with the Dark Eldar being the insane BDSM-obsessed versions of the Eldar, and the Dark Templar being fairly good guys who were exiled over cultural differences. Really, not much similarity their.

And the Terran Marine=Space Marine only really goes as far as, "OMG, TEH"RE BOATH HUMANS IN TEH HUMANS SHAPED PWERED ARMERS!!" I got news for you, so is practically every other humanoid powered armor out there. What else do you expect it to look like, an octopus? Though I will admit a bit of a similarity in the images that someone posted between Starcraft 2 concept art and that Spacehulk cover...

Really, the only similarity I give credence to is the Zerg and the Tyranids. But then again, both are ripped off of Aliens anyways, so that's just nitpicking. Plus, the actual fluff behind both is completely different. I don't think the Tyranids were ever taken over by a human that they'd infected with their DNA...

[Athaniar]

Anyone wanting to build a good fictional universe of course takes inspiration from everywhere else in popular culture. That's how it is. As long as it's not downright cloning and slapping a different lable on it, I'm fine.

[black dragoon]

Someone finally noticed the POWAMR threads ongoing debate huh.

[Tom_Violence]

What does it matter since they all clearly ripped off Giger anyway. Y'know, cos they're aliens and stuff.

[Oslecamo]

Ok, let's see the similarities:

1-Humans with big weapons and big robotic armors.
2-Ancient aliens with supercomplicated caste system, advanced technology backed up by mysterious psychic powers.
3-Alien monsters wich are trying to eat everything that exists.

The truth is, those are elements you can find in any futuristic seting.

Of course that there will be badass robotic armors and weapons, and of course that there will be mysterious psychic advanced aliens who think humanity is super dumb and then some kind of monstruous horde wich is trying to kill everyone.

It's the basis of a lot of books, movies and games.

And the people still love it, so one can't blame blizzard and GW for using a winning formula.

I myself play both dawn of war and Starcraft and greatly enjoy both.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Rutee

...They have? Can ya explain that one for me?

I was mainly refering to the Tyranid Ravener which is a post Starcraft Addition.

Compare:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/tyranid...ure-gallery/9/

http://homepage.mac.com/cheethorne/S.../hydralisk.htm

The Scythe blades on the Hydralisk were useless in game and Tyranid Hormagaunts had them first but they did become a lot more common at the same time the Ravener was introduced to the point that they completely supplanted the boneswords wielded by earlier Tyranid Warriors and Hive Tyrants. The Carnifex also had scythes but they were less similar to Hydralisk scythes until the scythes became standardised.

[Smeik]

They didn't steal.

They researched.

That's a big difference, as research happens in more than one place.

[Nerd-o-rama]

1 and 3, blatantly. But I'd call it more "homage" than theft, especially since they only make references to individual things and have an entirely different plot. That's just how Blizzard's sense of humor works.

[Bryn]

I have heard that the original Warcraft was going to be based on Warhammer Fantasy, but GW changed their minds; since then, from the looks of things (bearing in mind I don't actually play either game) the franchises have both moved in different directions. Notably, the first Warcraft (IIRC, I could be confabulating) credited Warhammer Fantasy as an inspiration.

From this, people could well have come to the conclusion that Starcraft copied 40k in the same way, as both universes are dark sci-fi universes in which everyone's evil and power-armoured marines fight swarms of aliens in a perpetual war while being manipulated from the side by an ancient race with psychic powers; in addition, both are spawned from a fantasy universe and have similar names while being completely different. Such similarities are superficial in nature, however, as there is a whole lot more to both universes and thus it would be silly to dismiss Starcraft as a rip-off of 40k.

Apart from that, there are very few things that 40k doesn't either reference or borrow from. They've done a good enough job of it though that something new has emerged from the old ideas, to the point that 40k is a pretty unique universe in its own right; in any case, if you're going to rip off anything, Aliens is a pretty good choice

Now, if only Starcraft II looked quite as good in-game as it does in the promotional video; then again, Dawn of War II seems to be doing a pretty good job on that front.

[Kacaier]

Considering I've never had a more friendly debate with WH40k die hards, I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me on the specific issue of the Imperial Space Marine and the Terran Marine.

I'd like to know through specifics, not just picture comparisons alone (honestly, I see no comparison between those), but what specifically between the armors are such replicas. Of course, post something beyond 'bulky' or 'armor-y' in a less broad sense.

[LBO]

friendly debate

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Revlid]

1. and 3. They're not direct rip offs, they both take inspiration from similar sources, and the hearts of the stories are different, but there are a number of specific "homages", and visually the Zerg and Terran Marines are very, very similar.

Originally Posted by Warcraft 3, Dwarven Hippogriff Rider

"This is my Warhammer! It cost 40k!"

[Kacaier]

Originally Posted by Z-Axis

I have heard that the original Warcraft was going to be based on Warhammer Fantasy, but GW changed their minds; since then, from the looks of things (bearing in mind I don't actually play either game) the franchises have both moved in different directions. Notably, the first Warcraft (IIRC, I could be confabulating) credited Warhammer Fantasy as an inspiration.

I still see that as rumors. Of course, if you showed me the evidence, I'd gladly change my opinion.

Originally Posted by Z-Axis

Apart from that, there are very few things that 40k doesn't either reference or borrow from. They've done a good enough job of it though that something new has emerged from the old ideas, to the point that 40k is a pretty unique universe in its own right; in any case, if you're going to rip off anything, Aliens is a pretty good choice

Do you believe StarCraft has reached that same understanding that they've emerged as a unique universe in their own right?

Originally Posted by LBO

friendly debate

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You know, you're not really helping your own sanctity by following me around with nothing constructive. I never said those were friendly, but I mellowed out (as in this thread) considering I found some more reasonable people, unlike you.

And as I try to make a less confrontational approach, look who's here to kick up the dirt. Dude, mellow out.

Originally Posted by Revlid

Terran Marines are very, very similar.

I still don't understand that bit, not that I'm calling you out. Like my former post above, I always wondered where the similarities are.

[SmartAlec]

Originally Posted by Kacaier

I still see that as rumors. Of course, if you showed me the evidence, I'd gladly change my opinion. .

The credits, at least, are not rumours; Warhammer Fantasy is directly mentioned as an inspiration in the end credits of Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. I can't find it anywhere on YouTube to show you, unfortunately.

[Mr.Silver]

I'm unsure, but I doubt the similarities are coincidental. Certainly Warcraft III contained a number of references to Warhammer in certain unit names and even a shout-out in the form of one of the 'annoyed' responses of the Griffin Rider unit, who if you clicked on it enough would declare "This warhammer cost 40k!". (All of these were subsequently removed in the expansion pack for unknown reasons).

Therefore I'd say 1). Probably 3) as well.

[Cubey]

I think this Penny Arcade comic is very on-topic.