I haven't seen one yet, so i must make a board to discuss my favorite online game, which the newer versions have been ruining -_-
For those who don't know (hopefully not many of you -_- ) D.o.t.A = Defense of the Ancients. Its a Warcraft III frozen throne custom game. Its an Aeon of Strife game...
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I guess I'll start as OP....
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What's people's take on Invoker and Clockwork? are they uber broken? or not so much....
Invoker > all heroes in my opinion ... btw. Not broken, just good. Although now they nerfed him... its kinda saddening.
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2nd question: What's people's take on Lycan's nerfed ult and his nerfed as hell wolves?
(Wolves used to have a percent chance to bash, now they don't.)
__________________ "If you can, then do. If you cannot, then find a way so you can."
I play it every now and then. But when I do play WC3, I prefer Ultimate Footmen or Footmen Frenzy; my taste has always been towards more mass-battle style events.
I'm a ginormous DotA fan ^^. I used to play maybe 15 hours a week, these days far less since time is precious. I still get in 4-5 games a week though, usually TDA or DXDI, sometimes even inhouses with people from the old IHL/DPL leagues. We take it seriously =p.
The invoker is strong but nowhere near as strong anymore as he once was. The best hero in the game is (and has been for ages) Furion, in my opinion -- free map teleport mixed with the absolute best farming potential in the game makes for the best hero, hands down, as I see it. Darkseer is another hero whose potential is far higher than Invoker's due to better stat gain and one of the best ults in the game. In terms of team/league games, you'd obviously want to max heroes with aoe disables like Rooftrellen and Enigma over all others -- I doubt you'd ever see an invoker in a league game, especially now -- even if he were allowed.
Clockwork is awful. I hate him. He's bad, and his missle plus furion's ult can kill chickens at the well, which just *insanely* pisses me off. So. Very. Much. Plus he's bad. Bad. Bad stat gain, bad skills, bad farming, bad potential.
That's my take =p. Oh, and you're on the wrong forum to talk dota! www.dota-allstars.com, grasshopper! :D
Clockwerk is relatively good, presuming you're facing a single low-health hero who, probably, you'll have to have outfarmed. I got to Godlike with him 1v1 against Sniper, but not so much in team battles. The rocket is rubbish, the bolt attack is useless against more than 1 person, the cogs are useless once people catch on to attacking them, and Hookshot is decent but not great. Never played Invoker, but I've played against him, and he never seemed too tough. Nerfed Lycan disappointed me. The wolves used to be the best early-game skill I had, but now they're just blah. I'd rather play Strygwyr now.
My best hero is Sacred Warrior. I was downright unkillable with that guy.
I'm not familiar with the new heroes, but Furion sure is very powerful. You can almost say that he starts with a bonus Boots of Travel, which can be an exaggeration, but anyway, the teleportation is really useful.
Though the most fun heroes are IMHO Bristleback, Beastmaster and Ulfsaar. I just love cumulative effect skills.
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I've tried it twice with friends... but any time I play with other people I am owned spectacularly. So I tend to not play as I feel like I let my teammates down.
Yea, we've talked about DotA in the WC3 thread, but not much, cause yea it's true that some people there don't like it much. I agree that DotA is avery good game. So many people I know have bought WC3 only for DotA.
But yea, I'm a DotA player, not that bad I guess, and started playing TDA recently. I played a lot few year(s) back, i believe it was arond version 6.40 or so. Started again this summer.
I don't think Clockwork is as overpowered as people say, especially after his nerf, but he's decent. And I much prefer the new Lycan, and can't understand how people say it's a nerf. He's so good now. And I really love running around with max speed wolves and controlled creeps. Furion is decently good IMO, but not the best.
Heroes I like to play: Rexxar, Warlock, Akasha, Knight Davion, Tinker, Lina, Crystal Maiden, Nevermore, Broodmother. I used to be a big Raigor and Sandking fan way back.
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Cynan
Last edited by Cynan Machae : 08-25-2008 at 02:39 PM.
Clockwerk is still too good in my opinion. He fills far to many rolls. The rocket is anti-ganking, which is extremely good. He does decent in team battles as well, is a great initiator with plenty of health. His machine gun completely counters pudge as well. Combine him with Dark Seer in a lane(An ordinarily meh hero) and you've got one dangerous lane.
Now, for best heroes, I'd say PotM, NA, and Earthshaker. I play all 3 fairly regular and they are also constantly banned in in houses and the like. They are great gankers, NA more so, while PotM is excellent lane control, and ES decimates teams.
My three personal favorite heroes though, Magnus and ES. So under-played, but can make a great carry and is one heck of a team wrecker. The same goes for ES. What can I say, I still love the blink dagger even after it's nerf. Follow that up by the old and new Shadow Priest. I do like what they did with his new shallow grave and he makes a great team player as well.
I dislike playing by myself. I enjoy the company of my friends on vent. Also, no offense to you EM players out there, but if you play it to much, you can end up picking up a lot of bad habits.
I'd actually say invoker is not that great of a hero. He can do a lot and is fine with just building a skadi, but he's pretty easily shut down. He's to much a jack of all trades for me.
On the note of Lycan, I see the changes to him as actually a buff, so I have no clue what your talking about. Sure, his ult is shorter and his wolves don't bash, but they now do nearly triple the amount of damage, and neither him nor his wolves can be slowed while his ult is going. This makes him a far better ganker, though it's a trade off with the bash. But I can actually kill a lot of people around level 7 or 8 with just the wolves, more so then I used to when they had bash. Also, his global shout is another good reason for him. For team games he's got better viability, though there are still better picks then him.
Last edited by Poison_Fish : 08-25-2008 at 03:15 PM.
The thing about clockwork... is he's ridiculous. Not ridiculously good mind you. just ridiculous... he kinda reminds me of Spirit breaker.
Both are hero killers. they can't tank really... they don't spam. they're strength based 1v1 hero killers.
Clockwork is uber good when its 1v1...regardless of the scenario or how bad you're farmed. You just gotta play him right. I will agree that flare is ridiculous though.
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on a different note. I get really bothered by people who play Nightstalker, Troll Warlord, or even clinkz... and think they're bad@$$.... -_-''
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Lycan is uber nerfed. which surprised me. For those who haven't played 6.46b (i think that's the recent version.. if its not so sue me)
Lycan has had a few changes.
-Wolves Don't Bash anymore, their damage has been nerfed, and the chance of crit is smaller.
- Feral heart doesn't increase Movement speed. just attack speed and now Damage.
-Ult only lasts for 15 seconds. With a cooldown of 70 seconds. This basically means, lycan is god every 55 seconds.
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My thing for Invoker: I know some of you don't like him. Here's why i think he's good.
-He's ready for any situation.
-He has 10 ultimates.
-He gets ulti's at level 5/10/15/20, instead of 6/11/16
-Even if you silence him, he's beast.
His orbs make him broken. lets count the combo's
1) cold snap + alacrity
2) meteor + Sonic Wave
3) Ice wall + Sun beam (EEE I believe)
4) (for chasing) Ghost walk and Tornado.
this plus the ridiculousness of an orb x3? Exort give +3 damage/level/orb.
level 7 gives +21 damage. x3 = +63 damage. all natural. 14% MS + 7%+iasx3.
A good player with him will be ready for any situation, at any time, with any scenario. Sad they nerfed him though. =/
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Edit: I still miss lycan as Disabler. which made him so good. he was already a phenomenal ganker. Uber speed for much longer, even without ult speed, he was still fast as hell cause of feral heart. wolves bashing was icing on the cake. he could tank 3 heroes at once, or gank an entire team (with right support of course). Sure he's good. but not as good as he was. thats my opinion at least
__________________ "If you can, then do. If you cannot, then find a way so you can."
I love DotA. Unfortunatly, I'm pretty bad at it. I usually play as the Lich.
I actually made my own DotA map too, using the Warcraft III editor (And it took so much programming) except it's nowhere near as good or polished as the original, due to less Heroes, and no item recipes.
The only DotA hero i'm half-way decent with is Chaos Knight. I can at least get Hero Kills and survive with him.
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In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held his heart in his hands,
And ate of it.
I said, "Is it good, friend?"
"It is bitter - bitter", he answered,
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."
Lycan is uber nerfed. which surprised me. For those who haven't played 6.46b (i think that's the recent version.. if its not so sue me)
Lycan has had a few changes.
-Wolves Don't Bash anymore, their damage has been nerfed, and the chance of crit is smaller.
- Feral heart doesn't increase Movement speed. just attack speed and now Damage.
-Ult only lasts for 15 seconds. With a cooldown of 70 seconds. This basically means, lycan is god every 55 seconds.
It's 6.54b but Lycan got most changes in 6.53.
-Wolves last longer tho. Can attack air units (not really much tho). I believe their damage was better but I'm not sure about that.
-Well, since you get 522 ms for you and your minions in ulti form, I much prefer the bonus damage.
-Cooldown is now 100/70/40 instead of 180/170/160. Except for maybe level 1 ult which might represent overall less time of ownage, the other 2 levels are way better. And anyway, team battles don't last so long that the old ulti would be better. Manacost is also lower which is good since Lycan is probably not the most gifted there. And above all that, maximum movespeed, unslowable (ever seen a chicken run at 522 ms?), and this to himself and all his minions, which include dominated creeps (522 ms centaurs running toward you is scary).
+And now Howl is global.
I don't really play Invoker and don't know enough of his spells so I won'T say much about it. But I agree that he's mostly a Jack of All Trades.
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Cynan
Last edited by Cynan Machae : 08-25-2008 at 06:05 PM.
Yeah i agree with cynan about Lycan, try to do something against a lycan +2 wolves+2-3 centaur or trolls running after you at max speed oh and yeah dont even try to slow them.
As for CW and voker id just say there are much better heroes.
I love playing Rhasta, Lich, Silencer, Tidehunter, hum most heroes in fact.
Gotta love Rhasta with Guinsoo :D Voodoo, Shackles, Guinsoo, Voodoo, shackles.......
Yeah i agree with cynan about Lycan, try to do something against a lycan +2 wolves+2-3 centaur or trolls running after you at max speed oh and yeah dont even try to slow them.
As for CW and voker id just say there are much better heroes.
I love playing Rhasta, Lich, Silencer, Tidehunter, hum most heroes in fact.
Gotta love Rhasta with Guinsoo :D Voodoo, Shackles, Guinsoo, Voodoo, shackles.......
I like Tinker with Gunisoo.
Sheep, laser, missiles, rearm, sheep etc. Closest to a permi-sheep right there.
Last edited by Poison_Fish : 08-25-2008 at 07:07 PM.
Anyway I've been playing dota since June.
Loving it so far
Hmm, ISTR playing with a ShadowKnight person a few times recently, mostly when I was being silly and hosting wtf mode. Was that you? My WC3 account name is douglas_m.
I just love Tidehunter. Hes so freaking hard to kill, any DoT or debuff is useless against him, he get so much money from creep with anchor smash and I just think gush is the best skill in the game. Seriously, slow, lose armor and hurt a lot in the same skill? Since his ult was nerfed hes not as good though, his stun just doesnt last long enough anymore. But hes still my favorite hero: one of the best tank in the game but deal way too much damage to be ignored.
I also really love Medusa (go Mana shield), Slardar (hes not so good in a team fight but in a duel with his sprint and his permastun hes unbeatable) and Zeus (ult Zeus!)
Anyway, I havent played Dota recently because I got Super smash Brawl and I downloaded Saga so I dont know about Clockwork.
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I just love Tidehunter. Hes so freaking hard to kill, any DoT or debuff is useless against him, he get so much money from creep with anchor smash and I just think gush is the best skill in the game. Seriously, slow, lose armor and hurt a lot in the same skill? Since his ult was nerfed hes not as good though, his stun just doesnt last long enough anymore. But hes still my favorite hero: one of the best tank in the game but deal way too much damage to be ignored.
I also really love Medusa (go Mana shield), Slardar (hes not so good in a team fight but in a duel with his sprint and his permastun hes unbeatable) and Zeus (ult Zeus!)
Anyway, I havent played Dota recently because I got Super smash Brawl and I downloaded Saga so I dont know about Clockwork.
Tidehunter is a more tanky/slightly weaker version of Magnus. He's a fun one to play though for sure.
Medusa has always been more of a counter-pick for me. She screws over Sven and Warlock though, and both are constantly chosen heroes.
I love Slardar as well, he makes a great carry too, but again, I always used him as a counter pick to stealthers.
Zeus is always good. A well played solo zeus is even better. One of the best lane controllers short of Viper/the netherdrake.
Magnus definitely in my top ten. Although I've been learning jugg recently... everyone says to get battlefury but I've played him with Vlads + treads + S&Y and he's wrecked the whole game.
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On a different note
Got into a heated debate today with a buddy about the new Rdem mode. Whats your take on it guys? Old Rdem just had 2 taverns... now all the heroes in a circle and you can see who picked what, instead of relying on knowing names early game.
__________________ "If you can, then do. If you cannot, then find a way so you can."
I hope you do know that -rd and -em are two different modes (combinables yes, but played separately also).
I prefer the new RD. First, I think it's better esthetically, easie to use for beginners, and you can still see what's left to pick when you have picked yourself.
I've never been a big fan of Battlefury, mostly because it was picked fo the cleave attack and "easier to farm with", but now the bonus damage and regeneration is not negligible for that price. I really don't know anymore.
Crystal Maiden is really fun to play and one of my favorites also. I just wish they would do something about her retarded movespeed and attack animation
I hope you do know that -rd and -em are two different modes (combinables yes, but played separately also).
I prefer the new RD. First, I think it's better esthetically, easie to use for beginners, and you can still see what's left to pick when you have picked yourself.
I've never been a big fan of Battlefury, mostly because it was picked fo the cleave attack and "easier to farm with", but now the bonus damage and regeneration is not negligible for that price. I really don't know anymore.
Crystal Maiden is really fun to play and one of my favorites also. I just wish they would do something about her retarded movespeed and attack animation
I agree, I like the new RD.
EM, huh? slaps on monocle so that's why most of you play carry heroes. I have a rather large disrespect for EM games, with maybe the exception of AREM to try a new hero.
For battlefury, there are only a couple of character builds I like it on. Chaos Knight it's decent, if, when in a team battle you ult. Though, often enough I use my ult to finish off a tower as quickly as possible. That and a satanic is a better choice for him, as is an armlet.
Magnus it's rather impressive on with so much cleave, but again, not as much needed.
The rest of the melee heroes it's meh for me.
It's sort of a vanity item, really. It has decent regen, so if your able to make a persv early on, I'd say go for it, but that persv can easily be changed into a linkens, and if your a carry, a linkens is not a bad item to go with. So as long as you farm up other damage items.
That reminds me of a pro sniper with a battlefury.
Last edited by Poison_Fish : 08-26-2008 at 02:55 PM.
Yea I dislike -em also. It's sad that most player start to play DotA with -em. I guess it's ok when you've been playing regular DotA for a while and you decide you wanna play -em, but starting as -em isnt a good way to learn, IMO.
Yea I've played Magnus with BF before, but I didnt like the fac that he was doing more cleaved damage than target damage >< But with his ult, it's pretty good.
I've seen so many mortreds with BF tho. I'm not really a fan of Mortred as a carry since she's ssoooooo weak early game, but it even seems the standard build.
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