What I am truly disappointed with is not the fact that they refused the money because of money associated with gamers. I am disappointed that they snubbed Gary Gygax's memory (however politely it was worded). The money raised at GenCon was supposed to be in the memory of Mr. Gygax and would be part of his legacy.
Or they don't do that enough for the taste of the even more Taliban-like organisations. (Seriously, how sane are people who claim starving people should be sent bibles rather than food?) Or they caved in to the "Wall Watchers" and changed their practices.
If the CCF is pandering to those people, I doubt the spokesperson would have reiterated its policy of non-proselytization as stated in the Wikipedia article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA_Bait
For all those who are taking their reply seriously, another bit to consider. Putting their name and logo on credit cards is fine... just not gaming conventions.
Nice. Not only that, but it's a credit card with a reputation as a predatory lender. And that's not diluting the name and logo?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CabbageTheif
while they had the decency to say at the end that the dont hate us, there is still some... discrepancy is the word i am looking for, i believe. all letters should now be asking "what about gencon would lower your integrity?" to which the answer will probably be "because we were not supporting gencon at all" which should be replied in turn with "are you or representatives involved with every group that gives you money?"
This is exactly what I plan on asking in my letter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruendor_Cavescout
As satsunada pointed out, CCF is a 501(c)(3) organization; this means it gets federal tax exemption, and must follow certain rules in order to keep this exemption. Not too surprisingly, organizations like this tend to be very careful not to violate those rules. It's possible that that could be the reason; it's possible they had a knee-jerk reaction when the words "Dungeons" and "Dragons" got connected by an ampersand; it's possible there's other reasons for this that I'm not aware of; it's possible that it's all of these to some degree.
Given that tax exempt charities have been accepting money from GenCon for the past almost four decades, I can't see how this could be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scylfing
A while back a charity for abused children/families that I did extensive reporting about turned down sizeable gifts from licensed casino gaming and adult beverage establishments, on the grounds that they didn't wish to appear to condone practices that went against their mission statement (they're anti-gambling and alcohol, believing these things cause many of the problems their organization tries to fix). Some of the people who worked there weren't happy about it and a few even quit, but the directors thought taking the money that may have been made at the expense of the people they're trying to help would in effect be affirming bad behavior.
That would be fair enough if that were the case. But then you'd have to wonder about their conviction on it if they feel the need to feed us that BS about having no negative opinion of gamers.
In any case, the organization has made a clear effort in the past to be noted as having purely secular goals, despite their name. So the question would become, "Without the ridiculous religious bias, how does tabletop gaming go against their mission?" It's easy to see how gambling and alcohol can go against helping abused familys. Less so how saving an imaginary world from an imaginary monster goes against feeding starving children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheri Dahl
However, we couldn’t lend our name for publication because our policies have specific criteria for endorsements.
I'm rather curious as to exactly what these specific criteria are and in what ways GenCon faild to meet them.
I don't expect them to take it seriously. Nor any of our complaints seriously, really. After all, we're the evil tainted ones with our dirty D&D money.
And I will indeed wish ill will on their entire organization. I don't trust a single person who works for it, let alone the higher-ups. If you don't like it, that's really just too bad.
So, you're wishing ill will even the people who work hard at helping children and had nothing to do with the decision? You honestly see no problems with that? It seems to me you're acting just as snobby as the organization did.
However, this is exactly why I think that sending angry e-mails just to make yourself feel better, or sending them right after writing them instead of putting them aside for a while and then looking at them again before sending them, is a bad idea, because all it does is provide evidence that the D&D community is pretty malicious. A polite but firm letter would likely get a better reception. Granted, it might not get any reception at all, but it's much better than sending angry letters that make the D&D community look bad. If your motivation is only to make yourself feel better, you're honestly not much better than flamers on the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by St.Sinner
Huh. I wish I could say I'm shocked, but I can't really. I had a similar experience with another organisation of religious nutters at a fundraising event, only that time the game in question was Magic the Gathering. If you're already wondering how DnD could possibly be perceived as satanic, just try and work out how Magic the Gathering is supposed to be linked to "demon-worship" and "death culture", won't you.
Well way back when, it was in the official rulebooks that players would "ante" a random card up at the start of the game, and the winner would keep the anted cards. That's flat-out gambling, but to make things worse, there were even cards made that did things with it. For example, Demonic Attorney forced someone to add something to the ante or concede the game (giving up their already ante'd card) or a card that PERMANENTLY switched ownership of it and another card in play unless the opponent lost half of their beginning life (which would likely make them lose the game and their original anted card). One last example I need to mention is Amulet of Quoz, which, if your opponent doesn't add something to the ante, a coin is flipped to decide who wins (and thus who keeps the anted cards)
So as you can see, with a rule like that, and cards like that, I can see the reasoning for disliking the game on moral grounds. Of course, they got rid of the ante rule quite some time ago...
OK, I got a response from CCF. I can't help but wonder how many people got the exact same response. Here it is:
Spoiler
Thank you for writing to Anne Goddard and sharing your concerns. Anne was traveling when she received your email. We discussed your concern and she asked that I respond on her behalf Please know that we take your email very seriously.
There appears to be a misunderstanding which I would like to correct. When Gen Con contacted CCF about its auction, we were pleased to accept donations. However, we couldn’t lend our name for publication because our policies have specific criteria for endorsements. We were unaware that this had caused any problem or concern for Gen Con until we began receiving emails. This decision was in no way intended to be a reflection on Mr. Gygax, gaming enthusiasts or the game Dungeon and Dragons. We have the utmost respect for the gaming community and were touched by the generosity expressed through your auction. We were disappointed that we were not the recipients of the donation but we were pleased that another worthy organization benefited.
We realize this has become a topic of discussion in the gaming community and we hope you will help us by sharing this response.
The needs of children are great and we welcome your support. Should you wish to learn more we invite you to visit our website at www.christianchildrensfund.org.
Again, I thank you for taking the time to voice your concern. Your passion for gaming and your support for children are admirable.
I can't help but wonder, if the CCF has the utmost respect for the gaming community.... Then why does their policy prohibit even associating their name with it?
They prohibited their name being published because they did not wish to appear to endorse the gaming community... Isn't it the other way around? Wasn't the gaming community endorsing them, and their cause?
I still can't believe this. What a slap in the face.
What bugs me is the stereotyping. Why the hell do people think that DnDers are satanspawn? We're not! Heck, those people at GenCon were TRYING TO HELP CHILDREN.
Plus, they accepted money form the great late Gary. G himself. Now you can bet that quite a bit of his money came from DnD. And they accepted that money. So why not this money? It's an insult to GG, to gamers and a teeny bit insulting to those pooor starving kids. 'Oh, sorry, we can't give you clean drinking water and fresh food because the money we need for it was about to be donated by some evil DnDers.' SHEESH.
[/rant]
__________________
Spoiler
Avatar: Dallas-Dakota
VJ: Dr. Bath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsus
I have to say I wish to make love to your no saying the horrible pluralization of ninja rule.
I'm not a girl, and I'm not a boy. I'm an androgyne, so please don't call me "him" or "her" - call me "zi" instead if you can. If you've got a problem with this, then don't both flaming, I'll just ignore you.
Apparently that is their new form letter. They accept the funds from the individual gamers but refuse the funds from the organization. This has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with image.
I recently received a response from CCF representatives concerning the Gen Con incident concerning our attempted donation, and the CCF. It seems quite similar to responses received by many in the gaming community. Identical, in fact.
I can't help but wonder, however. If your organization has the 'utmost respect for the gaming community', why do your policies prohibit even associating your name with it?
You seem to have a misconception about the endorsing, as well. When you accept money from an organization that has a limited ability to donate (once or twice a year, or so, as an organized group), you are not endorsing their actions. They are endorsing yours. It would have been quite nice to see adults setting aside religious differences to help children. I'm saddened that your 'policies' prevent that, for fear of your name being tarnished. I wonder if the several hundred children that money would have helped will appreciate your good name while they starve, or become ill.
You know, in your mission statement, you don't have a single part, either there, or in beliefs, concerning christianity. There's nothing anywhere concerning fund raising, and who you'll let say that they gave money to you. So all we can say is who we didn't give money to, because some pigheaded 'policy' put personal differences ahead of your mission.
One of the largest reasons I left the christian faith was difficulty in reconciling the beliefs stated in the bible with the numerous contradicting actions by so many of its members, both in the community, and in the spotlight.
I would like to suggest, in the future, if your policy is detracting from your mission, it may be time to modify your policy.
Unsatisfied by cut-and-paste responses to very real problems,
<my name went here>
My apologies for not reading through the entire thread to get here to make my post, but I wanted to share my email exchange with the CCF on this matter...
on 10/31/08, dave originally wrote:
"The charity refused due to the fact that the money was raised partly by the sales of Dungeons and Dragons materials, which as we all know, puts an irrevocable taint of evil on the filthy lucre that us demon-worshipping gamers might want to use to, say, donate to starving children. Not only is this a slap in the face to every gamer, but it is especially insulting to Mr. Gygax himself, who I understand donated to their cause many times over the years. Plus, I'm sure the children who would have gotten food or clean drinking water with that money would be sort of upset, too."
--Rich Burlew, Giant in the Playground
It would behoove all of you at the Christian Children's Fund to remember that you are accepting money to do God's work and help starving and disadvantaged children, not serve your own morally superior egos.
Shame on you.
From: Cheri Dahl
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: Goodwill of gamers
Dear Mr. Cochran,
Thank you for writing to Anne Goddard and sharing your concerns. Anne was traveling when she received your email. We discussed your concern and she asked that I respond on her behalf Please know that we take your email very seriously.
There appears to be a misunderstanding which I would like to correct. When Gen Con contacted CCF about its auction, we were pleased to accept donations. However, we couldn’t lend our name for publication because our policies have specific criteria for endorsements. We were unaware that this had caused any problem or concern for Gen Con until we began receiving emails. This decision was in no way intended to be a reflection on Mr. Gygax, gaming enthusiasts or the game Dungeon and Dragons. We have the utmost respect for the gaming community and were touched by the generosity expressed through your auction. We were disappointed that we were not the recipients of the donation but we were pleased that another worthy organization benefited.
We realize this has become a topic of discussion in the gaming community and we hope you will help us by sharing this response.
The needs of children are great and we welcome your support. Should you wish to learn more we invite you to visit our website at www.christianchildrensfund.org.
Again, I thank you for taking the time to voice your concern. Your passion for gaming and your support for children are admirable.
Sincerely
Cheri Dahl
Vice President, International Communications and Fundraising
and my last word on the matter, back to Ms Dahl at CCF:
Dear Ms. Dahl,
Thank you for your email response in this matter. I apologize for the tone of my previous mail, especially in light of your response. I will certainly pass this along to my little corner of the gaming community.
If I could make a humble suggestion: perhaps a review of your policies for endorsements should undergo something of a review. Without knowing the specifics, of course, it would be a shame for some silly little rule to get in the way of future donations.
Thank you for your time. It is well appreciated.
Dave Cochran
I tried not to make it too apologetic and still be constructive...
Just thought I'd share my $0.02
Best,
Dave
aka Breaker Finn, the cutest damn halfling spellthief ever (or so my wife says...)
something that i noticed this morning when i was checking up on my webcomics... goblins supports them. they had an add
now, i am not saying this as a "how dare they!" type of thing; quite the contrary. has a deal been worked out? or are rich burlew and tarol hunt on opposite ends of this issue? is thunt (as he calls himself, much like our Giant) unaware of the situation?
something that i noticed this morning when i was checking up on my webcomics... goblins supports them. they had an add
now, i am not saying this as a "how dare they!" type of thing; quite the contrary. has a deal been worked out? or are rich burlew and tarol hunt on opposite ends of this issue? is thunt (as he calls himself, much like our Giant) unaware of the situation?
i am just all sorts of confused...
Er, where is it? Maybe I missed it but I don't see it on the main page.
Er, where is it? Maybe I missed it but I don't see it on the main page.
Yeah, there's no such ad when I see the page either.
However, there are a number of ad services where you just place a spot for the ad and ads are chosen by the service when the page is called up. If it uses a Google ads type of thing, the ad program could see a lot of gaming pages are mentioning Christian Children's Fund and consequently think that an ad for Christian Children's Fund is appropriate for gaming-related websites. Same reason you'll see ads in favor of a particular politician crop up on pages bashing that politician.
And you will notice there is an ad that is generated by a service in this or a similar way on the bottom of the main Goblins page. If this is where CabbageTheif saw the ad, then that would be what happened.
OK, I got a response from CCF. I can't help but wonder how many people got the exact same response. Here it is:
Spoiler
Thank you for writing to Anne Goddard and sharing your concerns. Anne was traveling when she received your email. We discussed your concern and she asked that I respond on her behalf Please know that we take your email very seriously.
There appears to be a misunderstanding which I would like to correct. When Gen Con contacted CCF about its auction, we were pleased to accept donations. However, we couldn’t lend our name for publication because our policies have specific criteria for endorsements. We were unaware that this had caused any problem or concern for Gen Con until we began receiving emails. This decision was in no way intended to be a reflection on Mr. Gygax, gaming enthusiasts or the game Dungeon and Dragons. We have the utmost respect for the gaming community and were touched by the generosity expressed through your auction. We were disappointed that we were not the recipients of the donation but we were pleased that another worthy organization benefited.
We realize this has become a topic of discussion in the gaming community and we hope you will help us by sharing this response.
The needs of children are great and we welcome your support. Should you wish to learn more we invite you to visit our website at www.christianchildrensfund.org.
Again, I thank you for taking the time to voice your concern. Your passion for gaming and your support for children are admirable.
I can't help but wonder, if the CCF has the utmost respect for the gaming community.... Then why does their policy prohibit even associating their name with it?
They prohibited their name being published because they did not wish to appear to endorse the gaming community... Isn't it the other way around? Wasn't the gaming community endorsing them, and their cause?
"I dunno, you just gave me the image of a nerd flying slow motion over a coffee table towards another nerd, dual wielding massive books. It was awesome." -- Marriclay
I sent a letter to them about them using an auto reply tricking you into thinking it's individually written. Looking forward to the auto reply back to that can't believe how a charity can be so immoral
If this is where CabbageTheif saw the ad, then that would be what happened.
that was exactly it. mystery solved!
and to answer those who dont understand the point of this, who dont think that any good will come of mailing letters... here is my thought on it. yes, the money has already been donated elsewhere. no, we will not ever change their opinion about the issue. yeah, they may have their own legal reason to do this, to protect themselves. but none of that is, as i see it, the point of the letters.
i know they are non-profit,, but i can only think of profit-based terms to explain my meaning; please bear with me. the point of the letters is to let the buisness know that they have a large consumer-base who have expressed interest in 'purchasing' from them, and they turned us away. now we arer showing them exactly how large this consumer base is, and other organizations who saw how many people responded will be able to think to themselves holy crap, that is a large and dedicated bunch whose money could be directed towards US!; this will lead to a smaller chance of a repeat of the current issue. furthermore, the world at large may have a stereotype for gamers that has, through this action, been challenged. not only did we try to donate a large amount of money, when it was denied we were angry for the children. not exactly a bunch of anti-social 40 year olds living in our parents basements, are we?
i dont write this letter for the gamers of today; our die have been cast, the modifiers added up. i do this for our gamer-children, and their gamer-children after, that they can live in a world where the smart and creative who express such qualities through a particular hobby wont be discriminated against.
They won't take the money because they were not associated with it...that should not matter. If people are willing to give money to help hungry children (I'm a mother myself), it should not matter whether GenCon was associated or not. In times like these were money is tight with most people, they should happily accept anything and not turn their noses up at it. How ridiculous.
As has been said before, the fact that they are using form letters is not a bad thing. With the sheer volume of material they must be recieving (), they cannot individually respond to every letter. We have to simply hope that they are reading enough of them to really figure out why we are mad and so they understand the appropriate way to handle this sort of situation in the future.
I wrote a second e-mail (incidentally, my first one never got a reply whatsoever) in which I politely ask what exactly was a problem with accepting the donation, saying that if they could be so kind as to explain it to me, I would be able to relay the information and clear the misunderstanding, if misunderstanding there is.
I'll let you know if they reply to this one.
__________________
Amazing avatar by Deuterium (Naked version by MethosHazara). Great sig by Dr Bath. (Twice).
Thanks. I promise not to voodoo you in the near future.
You know, it's really this companies decision if they want to take your money or not. What exactly do you hope your letters will accomplish?
"We won't be sending you money in the future because you won't accept our money!" Does that really sound rational?
This company clearly stated they don't take money from organizations they are not involved in. Probably because they don't want to take the time to research every single organization that wants to be able to say it donated.
This doesn't necessarily reflect anything about their attitude to gamers at all. I understand many of you feel they should accept money from any source they can get it from, but at the end of the day it is their company, not yours. They do not exist to make a profit, and to be perfectly honest, they don't care very much about your opinion.
Also, I'm not sure how this entire thread hasn't been scrubbed. I understand it's an issue that's close to the heart of the moderators, but it's an incredible double standard. I can't count the number of times someone has said something like
"ridiculous religious bias"
"Crazy Christian Fundies"
"religious nutters"
"Self-righteous jackasses."
"if they genuinely believe...what they believe, in their worldview, it makes sense, not that their worldview is right, because in this case it isn't."
"See this is why rel***** is such a bad thing for the world. Sure it gives people motivation and/or hope but it also(in to many cases) results in stuff like war, fear, depriving children of halloween, and deprving them of food in the aforementioned charity rejection."
"They won't accept seventeen thousand freaking dollars because of bigoted, downright wrong conceptions."
These are only a tiny fraction of the posts that are clearly against the rules here. I thought rules were meant to be universal. Not simply enforced or ignored based on personal convenience? I am completely disgusted with the moderators of this forum. I do not even share the beliefs of this organization (obviously, or I would not be on this forum.) but I do believe they have just as much a right to them as you do to yours.
And for all you self righteous people claiming "how dare they pass up my money to help the children!?" You donated a few dollars to help some starving children. These people have donated their entire lives. And have done more for these children than every single person on this forum or at Gencon will likely do for them in their entire lives combined. Maybe you should think about that the next time you feel self righteous for dropping 5 dollars in a bucket.
However, we couldn’t lend our name for publication because our policies have specific criteria for endorsements.
This decision was in no way intended to be a reflection on Mr. Gygax, gaming enthusiasts or the game Dungeon and Dragons.
From this, it seems that the "specific criteria" may have nothing to do with any kind of moral judgments on gamers. It may just have something to do with all the paperwork and bureaucracy involved with trying to accept money from any organization that may not be completely non-profit. The whole idea that it was turned down due to religious bias is probably just a rumor.
Here's another post I found when looking for other sources that reported this that says something similar, only this poster seems to have personal experience to back him up.
Last edited by Raging Gene Ray : 11-01-2008 at 07:06 PM.
[naive]
Wait a minute ... so if CCF rejected the funds because it would give the appearance of CCF endorsing Gencon, why wouldn't Fisher House also reject those funds for the same reason?
[/naive]
I suspect EvilDMM has the right of it; CCF may have been put under pressure by people who donate a *lot* more money than we do.
I wonder if World Vision would refuse the money? It's mission is nearly identical to CCFs.
Respectfully,
Brian P.
Fisher House wouldn't reject them, because the Christian fund is religious, but Fisher House isn't so they're allowed to take money off people who worship Satan, because officially they don't believe in him.
"We won't be sending you money in the future because you won't accept our money!" Does that really sound rational?
Not at all. However, "We won't send you our money individualy, which would likely be accepted, because you won't take our money when we offer it to you as a whole" does.
Also, I wrote this:
Spoiler
Anne Lynam;
It has recently come to my attention that the CCF has turned down a donation of seventeen-thousand dollars, raised by GenCon in memory of Gary Gygax, who, as I am told, was a long-time supporter of the CCF. This action of yours has me some-what confused. You have responded to other letters sent to you by saying that "as the request presented to us gave the appearance that CCF (the organization) was an endorser or supporter of a gaming convention, which CCF was not. As many non-profit organizations, CCF is selective in its endorsements or support in order to maintain the integrity of its name and logo." But yet, after some short research, I found an article on your partnership with Capital One, a credit card company, and - as I have come to see it - an enabler of Greed. That is one of the Seven Deadly Sins, is it not? So of course, I'm sure you can understand my confusion.
You claim you refused this donation because you don't want to be seen as connected to the Gaming community, but I don't see how accepting the donation would have created that illusion. A donation is just that - a donation. A gift from the heart, given from one party to another to show good-will and to help the second party achieve their goals. I don't understand how accepting this donation would in any way be considered as you showing any connection with or support for the Gaming community. Now, I am painfully aware of the 80's propaganda that Dungeons and Dragons, and similar Role-Playing games, are gate-ways to demon-summoning and Satan-worship, but as the daughter of a pastor who is now serving in the Canadian Army as a pastor to soldiers who may one day fight in Afghanistan or Iraq (although I pray it may never come to that), I have yet to see the connection. My father, the aforementioned pastor, is an avid gamer, as am I. As far as I'm concerned, Dungeons and Dragons and video games are little more than a hobby, just like sports or gardening. It's a GAME, for crying out loud. Hence the term "Gamer". I don't see how a simple game deserves this kind of avoidance. We're geeks, not lepers. I mean, some of the nicest, most caring people I know and you can ever hope to meet play Dungeons and Dragons.
I have always supported CCF, if not monetarily (as a xx year-old focusing on school and receiving no allowance from her parents, you can understand how monetary support is off-access to one such as myself), then in at least good will and pride towards you. **self-scrubbed** This has always been one of my major beefs with more right-wing groups, who I am aware have pressured you previously. However, as both a Christian and a life-long gamer, I find that the best possible face I can place on your refusal to take GenCon's generously offered money would be gratuitously disgusting - nothing more than a slap to the face to the Gaming community. We offered the hand of kindness, only to have it slapped aside. It that really how a Christian charity should operate? I respected the CCF. **self-scrubbed**
**self-scrubbed**
I hope you will consider these words, for I feel quite strongly about this. I would humbly like to request an apology, both personal and public, and perhaps of a public explanation. And until I recieve these, I must assume that you are not interested in my money - and so you shall recieve non of it. Likewise, I will urge my friends and loved ones to reconsider donating to you, since an insult to gamers is an insult to me, and thus an insult to my family.
Sincerely
*my name*
Christian, Gamer, Human Being
I'll print it off tonight and send it via Snail-Mail next time I'm out.
I'd like to know what right you have to turn down money, FREE money, that would go to help children.
I'm very displeased with your course of action.
I'll be blunt, I've never even considered donating to your charity. There are, after all, plenty of starving Americans, too. But, hey, you do good work and you help the children of the world. I can't fault you on that.
But then, to turn down such a sum of money, it seems an atrocity! Do you honestly believe that the money is corrupted or evil, merely because it comes (partially) from D&D sales? Do you truly believe gaming to be evil? Newsflash: people who want to give money to feed starving children aren't evil. They're charitable. Let's be honest: GenCon could still have made that money without planning to give it to a charity. Then it would have been all profit, lining their pockets. Instead, they go out of their way to be nice and try to feed some poor kids, and get turned down?
I ask you, who more evil in this situation: he who gives money or he who, even being closely tied to the foundation, says, "No."?
I know the answer. And I'll bet "Little Suzy" from your commercials does, too. Too bad knowing that won't feed her.
I can't believe this happened. I never thought even the most thickheaded of charities would turn down money over such a stupid, baseless, and most importantly, false pretense.
You have failed.
This mars your name to all gamers, and such a pompous act will only serve to further ensure you never see dime one from many. More grateful, more deserving organiztions exist out there, and they'll get my money before you do.
Once more: You have failed. Shame on you.
There's my message, all spoiler'd and such.
It's harsh, but hey, harshness is needed. I'll be lucky if they even bother reading it anyway at this point.
But this is just disgusting. I can't tell you how many times I've seen their commercials and thought, "Oh, those poor kids.". And now, when gamers ponied up $17,000 to hand to them, they refuse.
Some suggest they have pressure to do so from bigger donors. I'd like to know who these bigger donors are, so I can get word out as to how narrow-minded, bigoted, just plain incorrect they are.
So...I really have to ask, does anyone have any actual proof that they rejected it because they thought D&D was horribly evil?
The only source I believe I've seen for this entire claim was this and nothing else. Firstly, it says that they didn't want to be sponsors and that's why it went to something else. As far as I can tell, the $17,000 wasn't even on the table at that point; they just didn't want to be sponsors for the event. In other words, they pulled out before the thing even started. This could have much less to do with them thinking D&D was bad and more with being worried that donors might not like the fact they seem connected with it. So, we have one source (and only one!) that states this, and if you examine the phrasing, they did NOT reject the $17,000 because the money hadn't even been raised by that point.
Additionally, they DID say that the reason they chose not to sponsor the event was that they had rules about what events they could/couldn't endorse, and GenCon wasn't an event that fit the criteria.
So...are there any other sources that state that they rejected it because of the D&D connection? Because it really seems that people are judging this all on one source, and saying the source says things it doesn't.
How ironic that the "Larry-Boy and the Rumor Weed" episode of VeggieTales was on today. In a song about rumors, it defines what a rumor is:
"It starts as a story.
Maybe it's true, maybe not.
But once you repeat it,
It's hard to defeat it!
Now look at the mess that you've got!"
You know, it's really this companies decision if they want to take your money or not. What exactly do you hope your letters will accomplish?
I would like to think they would actually listen and maybe 1) give an apology and/or 2) not pass money up for ridiculous reasons next time. How much chance is there of that? Not much. But it doesn't take me much time to write an email that will also be cathartic to me, so I don't really consider it time wasted.
Quote:
"We won't be sending you money in the future because you won't accept our money!" Does that really sound rational?
When put that way, no it doesn't. However, that isn't the only thing being said, nor are some people saying it at all. For example, I'm complaining because it was done unfairly and reflects poorly on them and insults us.
Quote:
This company clearly stated they don't take money from organizations they are not involved in. Probably because they don't want to take the time to research every single organization that wants to be able to say it donated.
This doesn't necessarily reflect anything about their attitude to gamers at all. I understand many of you feel they should accept money from any source they can get it from, but at the end of the day it is their company, not yours. They do not exist to make a profit, and to be perfectly honest, they don't care very much about your opinion.
It's already been stated in this thread that they DO take money from organizations they aren't involved in, so obviously there is something else at work here.
Quote:
Also, I'm not sure how this entire thread hasn't been scrubbed. I understand it's an issue that's close to the heart of the moderators, but it's an incredible double standard. I can't count the number of times someone has said something like
*examples snipped to conserve space*
These are only a tiny fraction of the posts that are clearly against the rules here. I thought rules were meant to be universal. Not simply enforced or ignored based on personal convenience? I am completely disgusted with the moderators of this forum. I do not even share the beliefs of this organization (obviously, or I would not be on this forum.) but I do believe they have just as much a right to them as you do to yours.
For one thing, this is the Giant's forum. He made the rules. He is the only reason the rules are here, and are, indeed, enforced- it has nothing to do with some kind of overarching greater, infallible rule set, it is his preference and we abide by it because he wants the people in this forum to.
As such, if the Giant wants to peel back the rule for a little bit for whatever reason, it is completely within his rights.
For another, it's not like it is being ignored:
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Originally Posted by The Giant
The Voice of Mod: Also, let's be careful not to bring their religion into this. There are plenty of secular reasons why this is a stupid thoughtless blunder on their part without calling their religion into question.
Plus, no threats of violence. Consider the thread warned.
That aside, next:
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And for all you self righteous people claiming "how dare they pass up my money to help the children!?" You donated a few dollars to help some starving children. These people have donated their entire lives. And have done more for these children than every single person on this forum or at Gencon will likely do for them in their entire lives combined. Maybe you should think about that the next time you feel self righteous for dropping 5 dollars in a bucket.
Ah yes. Because spending more time attempting to do something good shields you from all the times you do something wrong.
Oh, wait, no it doesn't.
Maybe we could do more. But that doesn't excuse them for turning down an easy opportunity to help us do that.
Cross-posted for potential truth from the WotC boards:
1.)
Spoiler
"And I'm saying if the Happy Fun-Time Jesus Camp had an auction, at which they said, publicly, they would be collecting for CCF, and didn't arrange with CCF beforehand to use the name, CCF would refuse the proceeds for the same legal reasons.
If you don't make arrangements to use the name, the charity cannot accept your donation without ceding certain rights to the name.
No matter how paranoid gamers might be about how persecuted our hobby is, they put out a public statement of respect for the gaming community, D&D in particular, and Gygax. They cannot accept the money because Gen Con screwed up the arrangements and used their name without permission. What more do you want?"
2.)
Spoiler
"Just like D&D and the OGL, there are RULES for how and who they can take money from...
In order to put the official D20 logo on your book, you have to go through a process...Cross all the I's and dot the T's.
Or else you don't get to use the logo.
If you're a corporation or an event that wants to collect money for a donation to a charity, you have to go through the process and correctly file everything before you go and announce that, hey, we're collecting money basically "in the name of this charity"...
Which, let's face it, is what you're doing - you're associating your organization or event with their name by saying that you're collecting money to give to them.
Just like Kaldric said, it doesn't matter if it's the Jesus-For-President Corporation - if they didn't ask permission and go through the whole required process to hold a fundraising effort in the name of the charity, then the charity can't legally accept the money.
Have you guys considered that there may even be legal justification for removing the charity's non-profit charity status for accepting improperly offered donations?
We all watch the news - how many charities have come under investigation for not documenting how every last dollar is spent and how they handle accepting donations?
What it boils down to is that there's only one particular way they're allowed to do things and they're not allowed to deviate from that, cuz it's just the rules that they gotta follow."
Incidentally...is D&D the only thing sold/promoted/whatever at Gencon? Or rather, D&D/D20 Modern/Star Wars RPG/Paizo Pathfinder/associated materials? Or are there other RPGs, ones that may have made more legitimate protest points due to contect (aka, more directly occult-related, highly violent/sensual imagry, etc.)?
Like Lord Seth says, we've got precisely one source, one that I'll openly state is likely biased, and beyond that, there's the form letter responses. Not a whole lot to go on, really.
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
can't believe how a charity can be so immoral
