Avatar Battle Royale Discussion Thread XIV, The Random Kill Strikes Back. Again...

[Emperor Ing]

Wait, if I use their power source as a weapon against them? (For example, using a solar beam vs a solar powered machine) wouldn't their developing a resistance to said weapon result in them being unable to function?

[Keris]

Not necessarily. If a unit functions derives energy from the emission of photoelectrons caused by incident electromagnetic radiation, and you attempted to attack the unit with a high energy burst of electromagnetic radiation, then what would happen first is the unit would begin to generate more energy.
If the electromagnetic radiation proved damaging, then the attacked unit would "warn" other units of the danger, who would then attempt to become resistant to the majority of the electromagnetic radiation used against them. They may only allow certain wavelengths through, obviously ones over the threshold frequency for the photocathode, or might block a given percentage of all incident radiation. This second option could cause a sudden power loss when your attack stops, before the Sovices weaken their shielding to take in ambient radiation.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

*Head explodes due to the large amount of big words in that post*

Edit- Added Kpeng's trailer to the art thread 1st post.

[Emperor Ing]

Hmm, That is valid, complicated, no doubt, but not impossible. But if the sovices did become resistant, or immune to said wavelength, it would be possible to use a lesser wavelength to overload an individual sovice...particle? Continuing the pattern of precaution, constantly testing wavelengths, including ones they have already built a resistance to in the event that the sovices assume that that wavelength will not be used to damage or destroy another Sovice. Eventually, the restrictions on what wavelength is damaging would become so extreme that the sovices may either be permanently weakened to a preset threshold where they will randomly allow acceptance of other wavelengths, or become too narrow to accept power, to the point where the sovices expend more power than they take in.

Essentially, make the threshold of "too hot or too cold" so narrow that it's impossible to not burn or freeze

[memnarch]

And what about jamming their signals and/or blocking them with some kind of force field?

[Tiffanie Lirle]

This all seems somewhat overcomplicated.

Smash em with a hammer.

[Keris]

The Sovices could use a compound gaseous cloud around them, who's collective emission spectra only omits radiation of a frequency higher than the threshold frequency of the photocathode used, and a reasonable distance from the peak wavelength of electromagnetic radiation incident on the Sovice. This would have the effect of limiting the majority of radiation affecting the Sovice to the absorption spectra of the gaseous cloud, allowing them to avoid the brunt of your attack and still function.

[Emperor Ing]

Originally Posted by memnarch

And what about jamming their signals and/or blocking them with some kind of force field?

I'm gonna get them to jam their own signal.

Simple. Use a solar ray with a lower frequency. Take longer to take its effect, but it'll do its damage eventually. If the cloud wants to omit rays of an equal or higher frequency than that, they'll have to go a bit lower

[Keris]

Originally Posted by The Randomizer

I'm gonna get them to jam their own signal.

Simple. Use a solar ray with a lower frequency. Take longer to take its effect, but it'll do its damage eventually. If the cloud wants to omit rays of an equal or higher frequency than that, they'll have to go a bit lower

Using low frequency radiation wouldn't work. The cloud of gas will absorb and re-emit all radiation not present in the emission spectra, so low frequency radiation wouldn't work. It also carries less energy.

I may give up on the technical jargon now, as I have achieved my aim.

[Emperor Ing]

Originally Posted by Keris Rain

Using low frequency radiation wouldn't work. The cloud of gas will absorb and re-emit all radiation not present in the emission spectra, so low frequency radiation wouldn't work. It also carries less energy.

I may give up on the technical jargon now, as I have achieved my aim.

Essentially, the omission spectra already has a narrow frequency threshold. Well, all I have to do to shoot the soldiers inside the bunker is shoot through the gap in the walls.

It's like a game of Limbo. How low can you go?

[Lyinginbedmon]

Keris has things pretty much correct. Keep in mind that the data is transmitted through their hive mind whether or not they are actually eliminated in the attack.

Under standard conditions the hive mind has a range of 10 miles (Meaning 2 units within 10 miles of one another can communicate, but not if they move further apart), if a Pylon is in place it extends to a light year, however, which is how they communicate over stellar distances in the absence of an active Omnigate.

Also, I never dreamed there would be such careful, calculated discussion of how best to defeat their adaptation, at least not from anyone other than me

[Keris]

Originally Posted by The Randomizer

Essentially, the omission spectra already has a narrow frequency threshold. Well, all I have to do to shoot the soldiers inside the bunker is shoot through the gap in the walls.

Yes, but you have no way of knowing where the "hole" is unless you split the light coming off the Sovices through a spectrum, and found the gap, which is unlikely to be in the visible portion. The Sovices could then change the composition of the cloud surrounding them, and you would have to look again. And they can keep doing this, as you can't emit energy across the entire spectrum at once.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

Originally Posted by Tiffanie Lirle

Smash em with a hammer.

Ninja text is invisible.

[Emperor Ing]

Originally Posted by Lyinginbedmon

Keris has things pretty much correct. Keep in mind that the data is transmitted through their hive mind whether or now they are actually eliminated in the attack.

Oh yeah, definitley. That fact actually makes things easier on me.

I'm using the bunker example. I have a gun with unlimited ammo firing into a bunker, and I aim for the narrow gap where the enemy troops fire out of. In order to block my fire, they have to narrow the gap (for the sake of argument, they can). However, they need to keep it open juuust enough so they can fire out of without fear of enemy fire. What would happen is either one, they'll close the bunker so they can't fire out of their bunker anymore, or two, while deciding what to do, it leaves the bunker and its occupants vulnerable to attack.

[The Gremlin]

Originally Posted by Tiffanie Lirle

This all seems somewhat overcomplicated.

Smash em with a hammer.

Hear, hear!

[memnarch]

Originally Posted by Keris Rain

Yes, but you have no way of knowing where the "hole" is unless you split the light coming off the Sovices through a spectrum, and found the gap, which is unlikely to be in the visible portion. The Sovices could then change the composition of the cloud surrounding them, and you would have to look again. And they can keep doing this, as you can't emit energy across the entire spectrum at once.

Not from a single source anyway; one could use many different EM sources to generate the entire spectrum. This being said, it's probably easier just to put the thing in a bubble that lets no information (EM and magic) through, then destroy it in a method that they haven't seen yet as a collective. Since the unit being destroyed can't transmit info, the collective wouldn't learn how to defend against it would they?

[Lyinginbedmon]

The flaw in your argument at first glance is that you're assuming they're solar powered.

This is partially true, they have four Dyson bubbles to this effect (Though most of the power from them is godly offering), but they're composed of molecule-sized nanites.

The nanites are created from chemical reactions in larger masses of nanites (This isn't how they started, just to clarify, or else that'd be a predestination paradox). One arm of each nanite is made from a broken-off electron from the reaction, so it can move larger molecules around by replacing one. The other arm is positive, so it can stick together tightly with other nanites, allowing them to make the various chained structures necessary for adaptation.

They have more than enough capability for fusion power. Make the exterior surface completely impassible for external radiation and then produce an internal source of light energy. This makes your bunker idea completely impossible.

Alternatively, make the Nanogate actually nano, they don't even need a star in that case.

[Emperor Ing]

Originally Posted by Lyinginbedmon

The flaw in your argument at first glance is that you're assuming they're solar powered.

This is partially true, they have four Dyson bubbles to this effect (Though most of the power from them is godly offering), but they're composed of molecule-sized nanites.

The nanites are created from chemical reactions in larger masses of nanites (This isn't how they started, just to clarify, or else that'd be a predestination paradox). One arm of each nanite is made from a broken-off electron from the reaction, so it can move larger molecules around by replacing one. The other arm is positive, so it can stick together tightly with other nanites, allowing them to make the various chained structures necessary for adaptation.

They have more than enough capability for fusion power. Make the exterior surface completely impassible for external radiation and then produce an internal source of light energy. This makes your bunker idea completely impossible.

Alternatively, make the Nanogate actually nano, they don't even need a star in that case.

The whole point of the solar power argument was that under the assumption that the power source could be in the form of any external radiation. Of course, that was only a 'maybe'.

Fusion power is like 1000x the power of fission. Fusion has to be done at a seriously subquantum scale to even consider holding the sovice particle together!

Of course, divine energies are a bit more reasonable. Now if I were to kill their gods...

[Keris]

Originally Posted by Lyinginbedmon

The flaw in your argument at first glance is that you're assuming they're solar powered.

This is partially true, they have four Dyson bubbles to this effect (Though most of the power from them is godly offering), but they're composed of molecule-sized nanites.

They sacrifice the majority of the output of four stars? What are they doing, boiling planets?

[Emperor Ing]

Nanite molecules seem to be polar, and quite reactive. it seems that boiling them in water would be quite effective in destroying a Sovice particle.

[Keris]

Originally Posted by Lyinginbedmon

...they're composed of molecule-sized nanites.

The nanites are created from chemical reactions in larger masses of nanites (This isn't how they started, just to clarify, or else that'd be a predestination paradox). One arm of each nanite is made from a broken-off electron from the reaction, so it can move larger molecules around by replacing one. The other arm is positive, so it can stick together tightly with other nanites, allowing them to make the various chained structures necessary for adaptation.

This raises the question of what Sovices are actually made of, if they can be that complex, yet in the same order of size as molecules.

@^ Polar molecules form stronger bonds than non-polar molecules. Why would they be destroyed by temperatures of 373K?

[Emperor Ing]

Originally Posted by Keris Rain

@^ Polar molecules form stronger bonds than non-polar molecules. Why would they be destroyed by temperatures of 373K?

*shrug* tell that to Ice.

Again, just a hypothesis. Just because the whole thing doesn't dissolve in a matter of minutes (nor do I expect it to) doesn't mean the occasional particle doesnt get exited enough to leave the compound, and either bond with another Nanite or a random water molecule.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

Could we dumb this conversation down a bit? Getting a headache here.

[Keris]

Originally Posted by The Randomizer

Again, just a hypothesis. Just because the whole thing doesn't dissolve in a matter of minutes (nor do I expect it to) doesn't mean the occasional particle doesnt get exited enough to leave the compound, and either bond with another Nanite or a random water molecule.

However, the Sovices form huge ionic "molecules", where all the "atoms" are linked by the Ionic bond between the captive electron of one and the positive arm of another.

@^ I'll stop now. I need to get to sleep anyway.

[Lyinginbedmon]

I've put up a new explanation page on the nanites, and with the exception of one spelling typo it should be pretty clear.

For reference, only in a complete vacuum by their lonesome is a nanite really powerless. They use local molecules and "gravitate" towards them, like pulling on something really heavy with a light tug. Even in space, hydrogen and other molecules abound (Albeit in very low concentrations), so whilst slow a Sovice could conceivably grow in space.

When they come together in larger numbers, they can develop other methods of propulsion and locomotion to move around, so that it becomes a moot concept of "Total vacuum + Sovice = dead"

[Shades of Gray]

In other news, I drew up the feldgrau military.



Here are the soldiers, a captain, a scout, and a grenadier.

EDIT: The gray symbol:

[memnarch]

Lying; I can't find this supposed page. Links please?

Shades; cool! shall I add the gray symbol to map?

[Lyinginbedmon]

Originally Posted by memnarch

Lying; I can't find this supposed page. Links please?

Art thread, my last post there. Alternatively, here

[BRC]

Originally Posted by Shades of gray

In other news, I drew up the feldgrau military.



Here are the soldiers, a captain, a scout, and a grenadier.

EDIT: The gray symbol:

Nifty!
My only question is, where did they get those high-tech guns?

[memnarch]

Originally Posted by Lyinginbedmon

Art thread, my last post there. Alternatively, here

... mind giving me a sense of scale?

BRC; you get my pm?