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Hey, I'm wondering about arcane spellcasters that focus on a particular school. The Dread Necromancer is like the super specialist Necromancer, the Warmage is the Evoker and the Beguiler is the Illusionist and Enchanter. Are there ones for the other schools of magic, either from official books or top quality home brew?
I can't think of any other than those three off the top of my head. The closest I can think of is Master Specialist from Complete Mage, an early entry PrC that can supercharge a specialist wizard into something akin to that.
Well, I don't know about 'top quality' but I wrote a Witch Doctor class a while back that amounted to an uber-Transmuter/Abjurer.
The Tome of Fiends has a Summoner class, who also has many of the stable conjurations. Fits the bill. Unfortunately site is down right now, so I can't really link it to you.
May I see?Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone
Thanks a lot. It's up though, I found it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Horrible
The Healer, from Miniatures Handbook, is a terrible class, but still fits the definition of "hyper-focused magic user."
I mean, seriously, they gave it the spells-per-day of a spontaneous caster, but the spell-level progression of a prepared caster. That should be a sign that what they're freely handing out is not actually that good.
The biggest problem is unlike the Warmage/Dread Necro/Beguiler, it can't even spontaneously cast spells. It has to actually know in advance that you'll need restoration, which is dumb. And even worse then a Cleric, if it prepares Restoration, it can't even spontaneously convert it to cure X.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaq
Terrible.
I'm only interested in arcane spell casters that focus on one or two particular schools. I have an idea of replacing specialized Wizards with these specific classes and then making a varient generalist Wizard to try and balance out the Batman Wizard effect while still allowing the character concepts and archetypes the present Wizard supplies.
Happily, let me know what you think - it never got beyond a cursory playtest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesoeurs
The Witch Doctor.
I've been working on much the same project lately, including four classes which were Invocation-based to try and limit CoDzillas, Batman Wizards, and an improvement to the Bard class. However, I've been trying to expand lately on the trend of the Beguiler/Warmage/Dread Necromancer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesoeurs
I've almost got a Divine Servant class, which is a reverse-engineered Dread Necro that is pretty similar with the polarities reversed. I'm also working on a Transmuter class, which is a skillmonkey/caster, similar to a Beguiler, but focusing more on Trapspringing than Party Face.
Also in the works is my own version of the Summoner, which focuses on the Conjuration college, and is also similar in concept to the 'Everquest Classic' Magician class, wherin you have an elemental as a familiar, which is actually useful in combat. Beyond that, I think that most Abjuration really shouldn't be Arcane so much as Divine, except things like Dispel Magic, which should be Universal to anyone who studies and practices magic anyways.
My Arcanist is an Invocation-based class which was designed to replace the Wizard/Sorcerer classes. It gains 1/2 BAB, strong Will, weak Fort and Ref, and gains one Invocation per level. They get the Arcane Blast (basically a reflavored Eldritch Blast) with elemental flavors as least invocations and blast shapes available at various levels (including Burst, which is basically the shape of a Fireball, which Warlocks never get access to, as a Lesser). They also get Force Blast, which changes the die size down one category, but is considered to be a Force effect, and some of the other utility stuff. Baleful Polymorph is included as a Dark Invocation, Forcecage (Concentration required every round it remains) is around, and also things like Arcane Sight. It doesn't get MMM or Rope Trick, but it does get Shelter, which is a combination of Secure Shelter and Tiny Hut. It is supposed to be the 'limited general arcanist' class.
What do you mean by Trapspringing?
A Beguiler tends to focus on being the 'party face', getting skills like Bluff, Intimidate, and Diplomacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesoeurs
My Transmuter focuses more on Open Locks and Disable Device, finding and removing traps and subtly opening locked doors rather than just letting the Barbarian crash through it. He gets a class ability which reduces the penalty for picking locks quickly, and eventually negates it. He also picks up the ability to improvise tools for Open Locks and Disable Device from whatever is handy (search check to find appropriate materials).
At higher levels, he is able to alter the properties of substances (similar to Polymorph, but only for non-living non-animated objects) temporarily. He can't make valuable materials (gold, silver, mithral, adamantine, etc...), but he can temporarily turn a hair into a steel lockpick or probe for disabling a trap. He can also turn a touched item into something less dangerous (changing a steel sword into clay, for example). He can also make subtle changes in the makeup of an item as long as it is not too complex. For example, as a melee touch attack, he could make all the joints in a suit of full plate fuse and lock up, although the target gets a Fort Save.
That's a really neat idea. Would you mind showing us what the end product looks like?Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesoeurs
And how do you think this will compare with sorcerers?
Check these homebrew out: they're very well done. Still no Summoner yet, but the Abjuration/Divination and Transmutation variants are excellently done, I think.
Court Mage
Mutationist
I also have some homebrew to this effect. Here, take a look.
The Rearranger, a transmutation-based caster.
The Savant and Summoner, a pair of specialist casters (Savant was Abjuration/Divination and Summoner was summoning focused Conjuration). That link also has the Spellweaver, which wasn't actually a focused caster, just a strange gishy class I never completely finished.
My "fixed" magic system would be a caster that covers each discipline (Warmage, Dread Necromancer, Beguiler, Diviner/Abjurer, Transmuter and Conjuer) with the Sorceror in the middle, maybe with one or two extra spells per spell level, so he can be the jack of all trades.
That sounds interesting, but it sounds like it might overshadow Rogues. Disregarding roleplayers or people with a preference for Rogue, why be a Rogue when you can be a lock picking, trap disabling caster with access to Polymorph?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost
The end product would be 6 to 7 casters, each representing one or two schools. Beguiler and Dread Necromancer in, and I want to fool with Evocation and maybe the Warmage class itself to improve the blaster archetype a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrmex
Then I might make a generalist Wizard. He casts with a spell book and has fewer spells per day than the Wizard, but more spells availible and has to prepare them. HOWEVER, he won't have unlimited spells availible. I'll say that when the Wizard scribes a spell, he memorizes a fragment of it, and it floats around his head half formed, partially memorized. When he sits down with his spell book, he can fully form a number of the spells he knows so that he can successfully cast them. He won't be able to switch spells in his spell book whenever he wants, and will have to commit to spells as a Sorcerer does, but will be able to replace spells at certain levels as a Sorcerer does. He'll be able to copy down any spells he knows into a new spell book from memory, I'll figure out some fluff on that, so if he loses his spell book, he can't simply write new spells into it.
The Sorcerer will be getting possibly faster progression or more spells known, as well as some class abilities. I'm going to be making mechanics for blood lines à la the Pathfinder and Ultimate Sorcerers. He'll also get Eschew Materials automatically, and I might even make it a class ability and remove it as a feat.
So, in summation:
Specialist Wizards will be replaced by: Beguiler, Warmage, Dread Necromancer, etc.
Unspecialized Wizards will be replaced by: a less Batman-y generalist Wizard. His flavour will be a more versatile caster who, due to a lack of natural casting ability, must prepare his spells and cannot prepare as many.
Sorcerers will be replaced by Sorcerers with blood lines with slightly buffed casting.
The Court Mage and Savant gave given me some good ideas. Thanks a lot for that.
Note that my Transmuter does NOT get access to traditional Polymorph, or PAO (which I consider too unbalancing). They simply get an ability to manipulate the physical properties of non-living non-animated objects. Consider Full Metal Alchemist (without the blatant cheating) for possible uses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesoeurs
They don't get a whole lot of damage output, which is their downside. A Rogue can easily out-damage a Transmuter, particularly with TWF + Precision + UMD wands to cover immunities to precision-based damage. Also, they don't get any Skill Masteries, which a Rogue can easily obtain. So a pure Rogue can still be better at picking locks and opening doors, simply because once he hits level 10, he can pick up Skill Mastery and never have to worry about failing any rolls after that.
What book is the Warmage in? Maybe I could try to fiddle around with him a bit and see what I can come up with.Quote:
The end product would be 6 to 7 casters, each representing one or two schools. Beguiler and Dread Necromancer in, and I want to fool with Evocation and maybe the Warmage class itself to improve the blaster archetype a bit.
I'd be careful with that, if I were you. Personally, I think that if you want to limit power, don't let in a class that can ignore that limit.Quote:
Then I might make a generalist Wizard. He casts with a spell book and has fewer spells per day than the Wizard, but more spells availible and has to prepare them. HOWEVER, he won't have unlimited spells availible. I'll say that when the Wizard scribes a spell, he memorizes a fragment of it, and it floats around his head half formed, partially memorized. When he sits down with his spell book, he can fully form a number of the spells he knows so that he can successfully cast them. He won't be able to switch spells in his spell book whenever he wants, and will have to commit to spells as a Sorcerer does, but will be able to replace spells at certain levels as a Sorcerer does. He'll be able to copy down any spells he knows into a new spell book from memory, I'll figure out some fluff on that, so if he loses his spell book, he can't simply write new spells into it.
The Sorcerer will be getting possibly faster progression or more spells known, as well as some class abilities. I'm going to be making mechanics for blood lines à la the Pathfinder and Ultimate Sorcerers. He'll also get Eschew Materials automatically, and I might even make it a class ability and remove it as a feat.
I'm working on a Summoner now, should be ready in a few days. It's a heavy Conjuration-based class with lots of Summoning, a bit of Blasting, and some general utility. Specifically doesn't get as much battlefield control out of the book, but you can pick it up with Advanced Learning. It'll have a pretty heavy elemental flavor, though... that might step on the Warmage's toes...Quote:
So, in summation:
Specialist Wizards will be replaced by: Beguiler, Warmage, Dread Necromancer, etc.
Unspecialized Wizards will be replaced by: a less Batman-y generalist Wizard. His flavour will be a more versatile caster who, due to a lack of natural casting ability, must prepare his spells and cannot prepare as many.
Sorcerers will be replaced by Sorcerers with blood lines with slightly buffed casting.
Complete ArcaneQuote:
Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost
Here's a Time Mage, with a bit of conjuration, transmutation, and necromancy. The creator and I had slightly different ideas on what spells to give it, so I shamelesssly plug my massive analysis a few posts down.
Here's a Planeswalker, also rather focused on conjuration, but with a kind of domain that he can change each day.
Here's an Alchemist, with transmutation and conjuration on a very short list. It's non-spellcasting class features are suspiciously similar to that of a Power Classes pamphlet dealy from Mongoose Publishing, but I don't begrudge them. The problem is, when you're a spontaneous caster with access to your full class list, you really have no reason to be brewing potions, so most of them are useless.
The problem with Warmage is that it just doesn't have as many nifty cool abilities as it should have, compared with Beguiler and Dread Necromancer. The bonus feats it gets are fairly sub-par, as they are only once per day. Here's what I would do:
Replace Sudden x with the class ability Innate x, which allows you to apply that metamagic feat a number of times per day without increasing spell level.
Start giving them elemental resistances. Probably 5 to Fire, Ice, and Lightning, that goes up another 5 points every so often
Give them more 'gish' stuff, like being able to sacrifice x spell level to add x to attack and damage to all attacks that turn, or to add x to AC for Charisma + 1 rounds.
Some kind of Imbue/Spellstrike ability, which lets them deliver spells with their weapons
Now THAT would make a pretty nifty Warmage
Oh, good. I probably will not be allowing polymorph myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost
What would you suggest? I want a general Wizard for people who want to be able to cast a variety of spells without being a Sorcerer.Quote:
I'd be careful with that, if I were you. Personally, I think that if you want to limit power, don't let in a class that can ignore that limit.
I have my own Conjurer class in the works. :smallbiggrin: He'll have a familiar/companion of sorts, which he can build up over time like an Astral Construct. I want to make it an Outsider, but I'm thinking that having to deal with all the skill points and feats would be a bit confusing. Making him a construct might be a better idea, but also seems a bit too Astral Construct-ish. The thing is, it wasn't inspired by the Astral Construct, and I don't want to step on the toes of Shapers.Quote:
I'm working on a Summoner now, should be ready in a few days. It's a heavy Conjuration-based class with lots of Summoning, a bit of Blasting, and some general utility. Specifically doesn't get as much battlefield control out of the book, but you can pick it up with Advanced Learning. It'll have a pretty heavy elemental flavor, though... that might step on the Warmage's toes...
I also have an Oracle class in the works, which is a Diviner/Abjurer.
Yeah, I know. He's very barren compared to Beguiler and Dread Necromancer. I'll be fooling with him, and I also have two changes to Evocation I'd like to make:Quote:
Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost
1) Elemental damaging Evocation spells (Lightning Bolt, Fire Ball, Ray of Frost, etc.) will no longer be subject to SR.
2) Give a side effect to elemental damging spells. Ideas so far:
Fire: Those affected catch fire. I might have the damage increase from the normal 1d6 per round while on fire.
Cold: Either Dex damage or having those affected be fatigued for a few rounds.
Electricity: Have the jolt stun them for a few seconds, so that on the affected targets next round they can only make one standard or move action.
Sonic: Those affected are deafened.
Acid: Damage over time, like Melf's Acid Arrow.
I think I might give the Warmage a new ability (Expert Evoker, or something) that allows him more options when using energy spells, such as having acid spells sicken or nauseate or something.
I'll increase his BAB, maybe give him Combat Casting as a bonus feat, but I'm not going to get too gishy with him, as that's more the domain of Duskblades and Spellswords.
Yea, Polymorph, as written, is broke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesoeurs
To be honest, both Wizard AND Sorcerer are probably too overpowered, compared to these 'specialist mages', due to versatility. Honestly, the closest would be my Arcanist, which is an Invocation-based class, like the Warlock, which can produce a wide variety of effects, but limited in number of effects he knows.Quote:
What would you suggest? I want a general Wizard for people who want to be able to cast a variety of spells without being a Sorcerer.
Looks like we are going in different directions, then. Rather than Astral Construct, I start him off with Elemental Pact, which lets him form a pact with an elemental. This elemental starts off with 1hd, of an elemental flavor of either Earth, Fire, Water, or Air. Each flavor has a given ability (air has flight, fire does touch damage, earth can entangle, and I haven't decided on water yet). As he goes up in levels, he can Pact with more elementals, but can only have one out at a time. They grow as he gains levels, and gain additional abilities.Quote:
I have my own Conjurer class in the works. :smallbiggrin: He'll have a familiar/companion of sorts, which he can build up over time like an Astral Construct. I want to make it an Outsider, but I'm thinking that having to deal with all the skill points and feats would be a bit confusing. Making him a construct might be a better idea, but also seems a bit too Astral Construct-ish. The thing is, it wasn't inspired by the Astral Construct, and I don't want to step on the toes of Shapers.
Sounds like fun.Quote:
I also have an Oracle class in the works, which is a Diviner/Abjurer.
I'd be careful with that, it can get pretty unbalanced pretty quickly. Also, traditionally the elemental effects are: Fire does more damage, Cold has Fort save and optional Slow effect, Lightning is harder to resist and has optional stunning effect, Sonic has lower die size and optional stunning effect, and Acid does persistant damage.Quote:
Yeah, I know. He's very barren compared to Beguiler and Dread Necromancer. I'll be fooling with him, and I also have two changes to Evocation I'd like to make:
1) Elemental damaging Evocation spells (Lightning Bolt, Fire Ball, Ray of Frost, etc.) will no longer be subject to SR.
2) Give a side effect to elemental damging spells. Ideas so far:
Fire: Those affected catch fire. I might have the damage increase from the normal 1d6 per round while on fire.
Cold: Either Dex damage or having those affected be fatigued for a few rounds.
Electricity: Have the jolt stun them for a few seconds, so that on the affected targets next round they can only make one standard or move action.
Sonic: Those affected are deafened.
Acid: Damage over time, like Melf's Acid Arrow.
I wouldn't increase his BAB, keep him at 3/4. However, give him stuff like Arcane Strike to compensate for him.Quote:
I think I might give the Warmage a new ability (Expert Evoker, or something) that allows him more options when using energy spells, such as having acid spells sicken or nauseate or something.
I'll increase his BAB, maybe give him Combat Casting as a bonus feat, but I'm not going to get too gishy with him, as that's more the domain of Duskblades and Spellswords.
I think you could reasonably add a bunch of Enchantment to him unless you go out of your way to add hefty dose of offensive capabilities to Divination; otherwise it won't be much of a player class, but with Enchantment, you could get some pretty flavorful capabilities that can affect enemies (I mean, the biggest thing oracles tend to do in addition to foreseeing is influence what others do, which is specifically what enchantment does).Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesoeurs
I'm not particularly fond of the Warlock and Invocations, honestly. My plan is to greatly limit the number of spells the Wizard has access to. The Sorcerer as is isn't as strong as the Wizard, I'd just increase his progression and give him a few blood line abilities, but nothing too strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost
The servitor would grow as he gains levels, as well, and he would be able to choose the abilities.Quote:
Looks like we are going in different directions, then. Rather than Astral Construct, I start him off with Elemental Pact, which lets him form a pact with an elemental. This elemental starts off with 1hd, of an elemental flavor of either Earth, Fire, Water, or Air. Each flavor has a given ability (air has flight, fire does touch damage, earth can entangle, and I haven't decided on water yet). As he goes up in levels, he can Pact with more elementals, but can only have one out at a time. They grow as he gains levels, and gain additional abilities.
The thing is, I want to avoid actually stunning, it's a pretty powerful effect.Quote:
I'd be careful with that, it can get pretty unbalanced pretty quickly. Also, traditionally the elemental effects are: Fire does more damage, Cold has Fort save and optional Slow effect, Lightning is harder to resist and has optional stunning effect, Sonic has lower die size and optional stunning effect, and Acid does persistant damage.
His BAB is 1/2; I'd be increasing it to 3/4. :smalltongue:Quote:
I wouldn't increase his BAB, keep him at 3/4. However, give him stuff like Arcane Strike to compensate for him.
The character will be more of a buffer. I'm trying to figure out some more offensive capabilities to give her. I'm giving her ecclectic learning, to give her access to non-abjuration and divination spells. I'm also doing some stuff like dealing damage to people who she counterspells or dispels buffs from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
I think Beguilers and Factotums already did that! :smallbiggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesoeurs
I dislike Factotums. :smallmad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurbane