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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ORione
"More on How Surprises Are Not Deus Ex Machinas" comes before "Surprises Are Not Deus Ex Machinas" in the list. That doesn't hurt anything, but it looks a little weird.
Perhaps we should organize it from oldest to newest?
Beside this, I like the new arrangement.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ORione
"More on How Surprises Are Not Deus Ex Machinas" comes before "Surprises Are Not Deus Ex Machinas" in the list. That doesn't hurt anything, but it looks a little weird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
Perhaps we should organize it from oldest to newest?
It's a fair point, but on the other hand I like having the newest quotes right there at the top. It helps give an air of life to this thread; it potentially mitigates rule-D-related issues because even if there are contradictory quotes, the most recent one will be the first that people come across first (so further looking isn't necessary); and it's nice for the portion of our audience that is only interested in new quotes. (Apologies to the subset thereof that is disappointed when new posts, like this one, aren't about new quotes, like this one isn't)
What about...consolidating the related entries together?
So instead of...
...we'd have...
?
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
It's a fair point, but on the other hand I like having the newest quotes right there at the top. It helps give an air of life to this thread; it potentially mitigates rule-D-related issues because even if there
are contradictory quotes, the most recent one will be the first that people come across first (so further looking isn't necessary); and it's nice for the portion of our audience that is only interested in new quotes. (Apologies to the subset thereof that is disappointed when new posts, like this one, aren't about new quotes, like this one isn't)
What about...consolidating the related entries together?
So instead of...
...we'd have...
?
That looks fine. I was wondering why those entries were separate, while others were together. Now it feels more consistent.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
That looks fine. I was wondering why those entries were separate, while others were together. Now it feels more consistent.
OK, since it seems no one else has an opinion on this....Here's what I have in mind for updated entries:
Spoiler: Condensed and Filtered View
Show
Spoiler: D&D Rules and Explanations
Show
Accuracy |
Rules Accuracy In The Comic
"If you are looking for moment-to-moment rules accuracy from this comic, you probably should stop reading." For instance, Rich avoids the D&D term "calling" for the sake of non-D&D OOTS readers, who probably would not understand its meaning. |
#801 |
08/17/2011 |
Spoiler: Story, Plot, and Characters
Show
Familicide |
Familicide
How Familicide works. More here. |
#843 |
03/07/2012 |
The Story as a D&D Spoof |
D&D Spoof
The Giant on the comic's shift in focus from D&D gag-a-day jokes to a story that might appeal to a broader fanbase. More here. |
#829 |
01/22/2012 |
Any comments/recommendations/thoughts?
In something related closely related...this'll take the Familicide table down to a single entry, so does the subject still need its own table? My personal inclination is to leave the table in; The topic seems to recur frequently enough to warrant drawing attention to the quotes.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
In something related closely related...this'll take the Familicide table down to a single entry, so does the subject still need its own table? My personal inclination is to leave the table in; The topic seems to recur frequently enough to warrant drawing attention to the quotes.
On one hand, it is good to draw attention to it, since when the topic comes up it is good to reference those quotes. On the other hand, having a whole table for one entry feels a little unnecessary. Where would Familicide go if it didn't have its own table?
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
Where would Familicide go if it didn't have its own table?
I think it'd go in the "General Information" table in the "Story, Plot, and Characters" spoiler; unless someone has a better idea for where it should go. The details on how vampirism works are there, so it seems a good spot for the details on how Familicide works.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
OK, the consolidated entries are now in the Index. And the Familicide table is still there, with a single entry.
In the way of status updates: The two-month period before a new update ends on June 26th, less than three weeks away, and so far we have...one quote proposed (mentioned in the post I just linked).
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
OK, the consolidated entries are now in the Index. And the Familicide table is still there, with a single entry.
In the way of status updates: The two-month period before a new update ends on
June 26th, less than three weeks away, and so far we have...one quote proposed (mentioned in the post I just linked).
The lack of proposed quotes is just because there has been a lack of posts. The Giant hasn't made many recent posts on the OOTS forum aside from procedural stuff (locking threads and posting the main discussion threads).
Therefore, I propose an old one not in there already:
The Ancient Black Dragon was a blah blah blah blah.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
You may have noticed the first post is kind of ugly; the board is currently suffering from a bug that's interfering with the formatting. I have a workaround ready, however because I'm lazy we have an update coming up in a couple days (literally two days), I'm postponing applying that workaround for now. Who knows, maybe Rawhide'll have it fixed for us soon.
Anyway, per update procedure we have an update every six quotes or two months, and the two-month period ends in two days. We have one quote up for consideration, and it appears best suited for adding into an existing entry. So here's the proposed entry in its entirety:
I'm mentioning it now in case anyone has developed or changed an opinion since the original proposal two months and a day ago.
Spoiler: Discussing Posts Thus Far
Show
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Emanick
I never use Twitter, so I'm not sure how to embed a tweet or link to one, but a tweet Rich just made eight hours ago suggests that he may consider eBooks in the future ("I'll consider it when I've finished all the Kickstarter stories").
We should probably record that. At the moment, the Index only has a quote from Rich suggesting that he's considered eBooks and dismissed the idea. That now seems to have changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bird
He may have just meant that he'd consider doing an eBook of the KS stories. I'm not sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Porthos
I think it's too ambigious to be included, myself. The curse of 140 character limits and all that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Recreator
Here's the permalink to the eBooks tweet. Sounds to me like digital sales are completely off the table until the Kickstarter stories are done. On a related note,
there are no plans for an OOTS omnibus right now because color printing is expensive and (reading a bit between the lines) economies of scale don't work when you print two separate editions.
Ultimately, I think it all comes together to say that the Giant would rather have a single definitive version of each story to sell, rather than juggle supply and demand for multiple editions of the same content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Emanick
I think it should be included, if only because the Index as currently read implies that Rich has ruled out eBooks for good. The tweet basically says, "no, they still might potentially happen in the future." To me, there's a big difference between "eBooks will never happen" and "eBooks will be 'considered' in the future," which is approximately the language Rich uses in the tweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
I think that putting the new one with the old one would work because the old one says "at this time" and the new one shows that he may be reconsidering that decision, after all, there is a three year gap between the three. I also think that the old quote offers a lot of important details, so it's worth keeping.
I think it's a good thing to include, so by my count it's in the "will be included" range of support...so barring changes in the next couple days, we'll be skipping the entire nomination/voting process and I'll update the Index on Thursday.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Well, in this particular case, no news is good news. For the sake of quasi-formality...
With no entries eligible to be voted on, there will be no vote; the sole entry is now in the Index.
I also applied the workaround for the table issue the forum is still having.
With that out of the way...I'm still happy to hear suggestions about how to reorganize the Index to make it easier to use.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
This is more of a general idea than a specific plan, but how would everyone feel about dividing some of the categories? I am very much a Splitter, and I feel that some of the categories are perhaps a little large (though I don't know how exactly they could be divided).
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
I also applied the workaround for the table issue the forum is still having.
And the next day, the issue is fixed. Go fig :smalltongue: I went back to the cleaner and less-character-intensive format for the BBcode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
This is more of a general idea than a specific plan, but how would everyone feel about dividing some of the categories? I am very much a Splitter, and I feel that some of the categories are perhaps a little large (though I don't know how exactly they could be divided).
I'm all for dividing some of the larger categories...but getting some ideas on what they should be split into would make the splitting a bunch easier :smalltongue:
Let me see, what are some of the larger sections....
- Art-General has 12 entries.
- Story, Plot, and Characters-Character Development and Backstory-Other Characters has 12 entries.
- Story, Plot, and Characters-Reading Too Much Into It has 12 entries.
- Story, Plot, and Characters-Storytelling Mistakes? has 13 entries.
- Story, Plot, and Characters-Writing Process and Story Development has 17 entries.
Well, if nothing else it's clear that we like our story, our plot, and our characters. Which admittedly might've been obvious.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Well, let's see... Perhaps for Storytelling Mistakes, we could split it into "real" mistakes (or things the Giant regrets doing) and things that people though were mistakes but weren't? Maybe for Writing Process and Story Development we could split it into those two categories? Sorry I'm not being very helpful (:smallfrown:); I'll keep on looking for ways to split them.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
I feel like the "real" mistakes tend to show up more in the book commentary. There are really just two quotes in the index that indicate "real" mistakes. That wouldn't do much to split up the large category of storytelling mistakes.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
137ben
I feel like the "real" mistakes tend to show up more in the book commentary. There are really just two quotes in the index that indicate "real" mistakes. That wouldn't do much to split up the large category of storytelling mistakes.
Looking at the entries again, I see your point. Back to the drawing board, I guess.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
Looking at the entries again, I see your point. Back to the drawing board, I guess.
Drawing board, you say? Well, maybe we can subdivide the "Art-General" into quotes specifically about drawing, and quotes about other aspects of the art:smalltongue:
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
137ben
Drawing board, you say? Well, maybe we can subdivide the "Art-General" into quotes specifically about drawing, and quotes about other aspects of the art:smalltongue:
Huh. While I'm 97.banana% certain you didn't mean this seriously, it does look like four of the 12 are "drawing" entries that could be split off....
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
Huh. While I'm 97.banana% certain you didn't mean this seriously, it
does look like four of the 12 are "drawing" entries that could be split off....
You know, while I was pretty certain he was joking too, I do like that split. One that I just thought of is adding a "Vector Legion" category to the Character Backstory and Develepment, which should take several entries away from "Other Characters".
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
I'm all for dividing some of the larger categories...but getting some ideas on what they should be split into would make the splitting a bunch easier :smalltongue:
I made some suggestions a while ago.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...8#post15972738
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
You know, while I was pretty certain he was joking too, I do like that split. One that I just thought of is adding a "Vector Legion" category to the Character Backstory and Develepment, which should take several entries away from "Other Characters".
Hmm....OK, that'd move four or five out there, and looking at it I think "Drama and Breaking a Character" fits more with the Writing Process quotes anyway. What's everyone else think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Miel
Ah. Let me see what you got there....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Miel
- Have a new main category Characters. Move here the sections Character Items, Stats & Quirks which I feel are not appropriate in the Rules category. Also include a few things like V's Children, and OOTS Age Range
My concern there is that currently, our categories and subcategories are divided on "what" lines. If we have a "who" axis with a Characters category, we have a much greater risk of entries that could fit in either place. I suppose we could have such entries in both places...but I don't see how that'd improve the Index's organization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Miel
- possibly make Alignment a sub category of Characters.
If we do end up with a Characters category, moving the character-specific subcategory of Alignment into it makes sense, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Miel
- Make Writing Process and Story Development a main category, rather than a subset of Story/ Plot.
Could work...any ideas on how/if to subdivide the Writing Process and Story Development table? It'll still be kinda big even if it's in its own section....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Miel
- have an Everything Else category, for things that don't fit into the main categories.
The problem with an "Everything Else" category is that it's the opposite of organization. It doesn't tell you what you'll find in it...and heck, it doesn't tell you what won't find in it; the other categories do that. If we end up with an entry that doesn't fit any of the established categories, I think it'd make far more sense to come up with an appropriate category to add, than to have a "we didn't/couldn't categorize it" section.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Yes, I was joking. It could work though, but it seems rather arbitrary.
I do like Jaxzan's idea for a "Vector Legions" section. However, it raises the question as to whether the quotes about vampires should go under general or under VL, since all of them mention Malack.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
137ben
Yes, I was joking. It could work though, but it seems rather arbitrary.
I do like Jaxzan's idea for a "Vector Legions" section. However, it raises the question as to whether the quotes about vampires should go under general or under VL, since all of them mention Malack.
I think they should go under VL, because their specific focus was on Malack and they were said because of questions about Malack.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
137ben
Yes, I was joking. It could work though, but it seems rather arbitrary.
I do like Jaxzan's idea for a "Vector Legions" section. However, it raises the question as to whether the quotes about vampires should go under general or under VL, since all of them mention Malack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
I think they should go under VL, because their specific focus was on Malack and they were said because of questions about Malack.
Well, the general vampirism questions are currently in General table of the category, while the Malack-specific ones are under Other Characters with the other Vector Legion ones....So I figure it makes the most sense to only move the Malack-specific ones.
That would give us this for the Character Development and Backstory table:Spoiler
Show
Character Development and Backstory |
The Order of the Stick |
Why V Didn't Kill Laurin
Character growth: V is learning not to kill "from a purely consequentialist viewpoint." |
#935 |
12/20/2013 |
Belkar and Bloodfeast
Belkar's concerns about 'Bloodfeast' were part of his character development, not an effort to make V look bad. |
#932 |
11/20/2013 |
The Dream Runes
Elan's victory as character development. Also, Nale was the only LG member affected by the runes. |
#893 |
06/11/2013 |
V is a Vegetarian |
#891 |
06/03/2013 |
What Belkar Saw
What Belkar saw while affected by the dream runes. |
#890 |
05/25/2013 |
V's Children
The Giant made them adopted to leave open the possibility that V/Inkyrius are gay or lesbian. |
#882 |
04/09/2013 |
Haley's Leadership
A greedy self-centered rogue becomes leader. Belkar and Haley are the only one's who questioned her leadership skills during the Azure City Resistance. |
#882 |
04/07/2013 |
Durkon and Malack's Breakup
Durkon reacts not only to Malack's vampirism, but to his alliance with the Linear Guild. He knows that Malack does not know Belkar isn't innocent. |
#872 |
02/26/2013 |
Parental Problems
Background info on the parents of various characters like Elan and Haley, including character/plot development history. |
#815 |
11/18/2011 |
Vector Legion |
Malack Chose to Worship Nergal
And "shaman" is a descriptive term, not a non-cleric class. |
#949 |
04/19/2014 |
Tarquin's Adventuring Party is Named "Vector Legion" |
#945 |
02/17/2014 |
Drama and Breaking a Character
"Drama is all about taking characters and pushing them until they break, one way or the other. If a character can't be broken, then they have no place as a main character in a story." More here. |
#934 |
12/08/2013 |
Tarquin's Internal and External Evil
About the message that the Giant developed Tarquin's character in part to convey. |
#934 |
12/08/2013 |
Malack is not Paranoid |
#906 |
07/30/2013 |
Other Characters |
On Julio rescuing Tarquin's Brides-to-be
Julio rescued the potential brides from Tarquin before their weddings, not after.Spoiler: Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tails
Show
Virginia is one of the rescued brides-to-be.
|
#932 |
11/21/2013 |
Kubota and Hinjo
Why Kubota still wanted to kill Hinjo after the other nobles had given up. |
#891 |
06/09/2013 |
The Azurite Nobles and Hinjo
The nobles thought they could save their own skins from Xykon with Hinjo out of the way. |
#891 |
06/06/2013 |
Scrying in the Desert
It was Zz'ditri who scryed on the Order after they found Girard's illusion. |
#870 |
02/18/2013 |
Miko's Popularity
Miko's story was not "cut short" because of fan opinions - it was precisely the length intended. Rich does not make storytelling decisions based on finances. |
#863 |
12/18/2012 |
Miko and Shojo
Shojo was the "tape" that held Miko's character together for so long. He was responsible for much in Miko that was good/positive. |
#815 |
11/18/2011 |
V's Splices
There won't be a prequel book about them, and Rich hasn't developed a backstory for them. Just 3 evil souls. |
#801 |
08/21/2011 |
How's that look?
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Alright then...I've rearranged the Index to have the Vector Legion section in the Character Backstory and Development table, and I've split off the four "drawing" entries in the general Art table into their own table.
Now then, going across threads....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Codyage
Why was I unaware of this particular interview before now? :smallconfused: (Evidence suggests it's because I didn't notice the news posting about it on 3/17/2007, fifteen days after I registered for the forums)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
Now then, going across threads....
Why was I unaware of this particular interview before now? :smallconfused: (Evidence suggests it's because I didn't notice
the news posting about it on 3/17/2007, fifteen days after I registered for the forums)
I wasn't aware of it either, but I have never really searched for that sort of thing. I assume it's going in, right?
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
I assume it's going in, right?
I'm not opposed to it (and I certainly haven't seen any posts here against it), but I think the question would be how to put it in. It's already hosted in text form, so including a "transcript" makes no sense (and would likely run afoul of copyright).
Perhaps a section for "Offsite Interviews" below the Twitter Q&As in the secondary posts, and put a link there? Or should there be a table in the Index proper for linking offsite interviews?
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
I'm not opposed to it (and I certainly haven't seen any posts here against it), but I think the question would be how to put it in. It's already hosted in text form, so including a "transcript" makes no sense (and would likely run afoul of copyright).
Perhaps a section for "Offsite Interviews" below the Twitter Q&As in the secondary posts, and put a link there? Or should there be a table in the Index proper for linking offsite interviews?
I was wondering about that actually, because it would definitely be pointless to transcript it if we could instead link to a concise, written interview. I think we should put it near the other Q&As, in the secondary posts.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
How about a link to it in the interview section, and adding a "see also" to some of the questions it answers in the main table?
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
137ben
How about a link to it in the interview section, and adding a "see also" to some of the questions it answers in the main table?
Hmm. What about...adding a link to it in the interview section, with a summary of the questions asked within it; and we accepted nominations for questions that can be answered by citing it, using quotes from the interview so the answer can located in the interview itself?
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
Hmm. What about...adding a link to it in the interview section, with a summary of the questions asked within it; and we accepted nominations for questions that can be answered by citing it, using quotes from the interview so the answer can located in the interview itself?
Sounds like it could work. It just involves...
...MORE VOTING!:smallbiggrin: