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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jormengand
*Sets up a newspaper-launching trap for Zay*.
You could always do something... less massive this time.
Nah, I was going to sit out the last one except I'd been pressing for Video Games. Even alignment I was thinking about sitting out on. I just want a break from the contest scene for a while.
Besides with this theme I'd have to discover exactly how massive of a class I could make.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jormengand
Does discovery include invention? Because if so I have a cool idea for a class.
I think it would work just fine.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
I may or may not have been sitting on this for a while. I hope you guys enjoy it.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Aaaand that's how the contest for 2nd place began.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dragonjek
Aaaand that's how the contest for 2nd place began.
Hey, the Warp Mage doesn't look easy to beat either, doesn't mean no-one did it. Rise to the challenge! :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
yeah, I just gotta find inspiration
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Coming up with these inventions is actually surprisingly hard. Like, there's only so many interesting ways that you can make things better, blow things up, move things, mess with minds, and protect things. As for robotics, it's just a whole load of mess which is gonna take a lot of effort to do.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Jormengand wow just wow. Ok I want a team of 6 with different specialties. One question. It says Invention Points are 5x level. Does that include levels in say sorcerer or just levels in classes and prcs in that post? Oh and i can't wait for a complete list of gear specially robotics cause right now the only head slot invention is the level 10 rail gun and the Dino bot only has Head 2.
one request. do some kinda combo field that mixes sealed container with robotics. i want my hover tank to have weapons.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mantia
Jormengand wow just wow. Ok I want a team of 6 with different specialties. One question. It says Invention Points are 5x level. Does that include levels in say sorcerer or just levels in classes and prcs in that post? Oh and i can't wait for a complete list of gear specially robotics cause right now the only head slot invention is the level 10 rail gun and the Dino bot only has Head 2.
IP are based on class level, the same way that IL is: Arcaneer, SotG, Techno Player and Techpriest will advance it but sorcerer won't. (An Inv 3/Sor 4/Arc 10 will have 65 IP available to use and just have learned 7th-level spells and inventions).
Yeah, some things you can't actually equip yet, but we're working on it! :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Results from the previous contest:
1st Place: Zaydos's freelancer!
2nd Place: Jormengand's MLG Quickscoper!
3rd Place: A tie between somebody27else's karoshi suicide salaryman and MrNobody's pac-knight!
Yayyyyyy. Updates on progress for the current contest?
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Yay! 3rd place, not bad!:smallsmile:
Good job, everyone!
I think that i'll sit out this time, but who knows, i may come up with a last-minute entry!
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Temotei
Results from the previous contest:
1st Place: Zaydos's freelancer!
2nd Place: Jormengand's MLG Quickscoper!
3rd Place: A tie between somebody27else's karoshi suicide salaryman and MrNobody's pac-knight!
Yayyyyyy. Updates on progress for the current contest?
I'm making a class. Please hold your applause everyone.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Does anyone have any critique, or invention ideas, for the Inventor? Because I need more ideas.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Repulsion
Repair Mixture: Personally I find Lv 1 too early for at-will out of combat healing to full health, and would add a 1/2 hp limit to it with a higher level version that goes to full hp. But as always with at-will ooc healing its a preference thing.
Toughened Carapace: DR 10 is ridiculous at Lv 3. This halves damage from pit fiends, demons, and assuming you go through the AC boosts the game assumes CR 20 dragons (if you don't they can beneficially PA) unless they're buffed to the stratosphere. At level 3... cuts >70% of damage from Lv 4 Astral Construct, negates 50% of attacks from Assassin Vines entirely, >70% from Ankheg, >70% from Centaur, stops 75% of attacks from deinonychus dead, >50% of attacks from dire apes are negated. >60% damage from dire wolf, 100% of attacks from werewolves fail. In general anything that goes for multiple attacks per round becomes a complete non-issue for several CRs up in fact. DR 5 is actually really good at ECL 3.
Storm Shield is OP at 65% attack negation.
And I'm certain there's a way to break Magic-Eater Cloak.
Mesmerism
Knockout Salve: Is super sleep, and makes 5th level maneuvers look worthless... at Lv 1.
Shimmersuit: As written gives Hide in Plain Sight in that it gives concealment with no description preventing hiding, and is continuous Blur at character level 3, it eats most of your daily resources at that point, but is still continuous blur at lv 3 and gets less impactful, but eventually you can buy continuous blur it just gets expensive.
Thoughtreader: Needs to give a save and an action for mind-reading (like the spell it's based on) or it gets broken very, very fast.
Cloaking Field: Does the DC 20 spot check allow you to ignore the concealment? Because otherwise that's actually standard rules for Invisibility, and it's continuous Greater Invisibility at Lv 5, i.e. 2 full levels before anyone else gets it for 5 rounds a day.
Sympathetic Beacon: As written this makes it absolutely impossible for any creature to ever be hostile to you. I am fairly certain that needs fixing. My go to methods would be doesn't affect alignment if this was an alignment paragon, otherwise allow a save to resist, and very definitely make it only affect INITIAL attitude. Also be considered a mind-affecting effect.
Mind-Wipe: I feel like there should be a way to get the memories back just because that could be a cool adventure plot.
Mind-Control Helm: No. Doesn't know they're being controlled if they pass the save is a very, very bad idea.
Mindbreaker: Should probably be higher level. Mindblank is 8th. This isn't quite as good, and takes up a little more of your daily resources, but still probably should be at least 7th.
Dream Manipulator: Why is this higher level than... well most of them?
Maddening Talisman: Do they have to save every round? Even at Lv 15 that's really strong.
Simulation Serum: So unbreakable Monstrous Thrall usable every encounter with no cost? This needs a lot more limits.
Augmentation
Hardened Carapace: As CRs get higher monsters rely upon more attacks per round. DR 10 stops half of the damage from most monsters. This allows for DR 20+ That is, in fact, a problem.
Demolitions
Demolition Charge: should probably have a lower area of effect or damage as the damage and area are bot massive at level 3 even considering the 3 round delay.
Flamethrower: What action is it to use the flamethrower? Standard? Attack? If it's a standard action it is op when you get it (note that this is the equivalent of an 9th level EB with a Greater Blast Shape), but becomes useless. I'd cut the area which makes it more reasonable, and scale the damage, unless it's an attack action in which case I'd allow attacks/turn to scale the damage for me.
Landmine: What action is it to set the landmine or is it just part of the construction? Also define careful movement; is it 5 ft as a move action? Is it half speed?
Laser Cutter: Is it supposed to be fire damage? It mentions making wood burn and it would make sense for a laser, but it should state that.
Blast Shield: D&D doesn't have facing rules unless you're using a variant, also as it's an immediate action to change facing you could just make it be an immediate action to give immunity to an AoE. As written it is unclear whether it stops Cloudkill (it's an area of effect which would harm them, but not an explosion) which would make no sense but the kind of thing a player would argue or make it not realizing. It's also an ability at 7th level which gives you what amounts to total immunity to AoEs so probably should be higher level. The part about using it as a shield brings up: does it have an ACP and more importantly is it supposed to be cover or total cover like a tower shield these are quite distinct things and should actually reference the mechanics of hiding behind one since this is not a standard facet of shields (only tower shields can be hidden behind).
Gravity Gun: Can I full attack with this for 20d12 damage 6 times in a round (haste + rapid shot)? This shouldn't be built as a weapon but as a standard action activated item and not need a weapon proficiency in the first place.
Stun Grenade: It's a splash weapon but you then talk about on a hit. Do you mean anything in the splash range or only a direct hit?
Plague Bomb: At 1 level above Contagion this is probably too early to give a 1000 ft radius that is usable in combat.
Soundstorm Cannon: This is reasonable, neat, and probably my favorite thing in demolitions thus far. It is also mechanically worse than Gravity Gun.
Target Lock: Having you switch modes is rather pointless, except that theoretically you can sneak attack with grenade-like weapons. Can't say I like this one in general. Midsweep is the worst especially allowing it to negate evasion, and just doesn't make much sense since as written it works with landmines. Might want to define blast weapon a bit. It is also unclear how long range is long range (seeing as how blasts tend to have longer range). I'd probably just make it the sneak attack and possibly even scale IP cost based upon number of dice granted. Not sure if that is a good idea though.
Freezing Trap: Is a frozen creature helpless? This grandfathers in all of the land mine's problems.
Missile Launcher: Again can I full attack with this? If not... Is it 1/round? Either way as written it is 95% chance of 10d6 damage at 400 ft with no save or miss chance because I just have to aim at the square. Give a Reflex save for half. And if you can full attack with it reduce the damage to 3d6 of each would be my advice. Also note that Force is not explosive force and for some reason this is a rocket that blows up ghosts and things in other dimensions and presents some strangely solid wall of explosion which is darn weird.
Gravity Crusher: Can I move this once it is built? Or do I have to camp in the bottom of a dungeon to build this?
Doomstorm Missiles: How big and mobile is the launcher? As it is the best use is to push the launcher into the enemy and then destroy it to deal 95 dice of damage to an enemy (not good) and the falling damage is probably too much coupled with 20+ dice of other damage. As a whole the ability is a mess which will bring gameplay to a stop when it is used, and slog down the game (not good). There's a reason they simplified Meteor Swarm between 3.0 and 3.5.
Dynamics:
Parallel Wheels: The whole thing is a mess, and I have no idea why wheels that turn when another of them turns would spin a person onto their head.
Booster Rocket: Explosion only affects the one creature not square?
Accelerator: 300 ft movement is either uselessly much because you can't move due to obstructions or insane kiting ability with shot on the run. Either is bad. You should probably make it a bonus to speed and a reasonable amount (say 30 to 60 ft tops). Just because something is useless in some situations is not reason to make it broken in any where it is useful.
Personal Teleporter: This is well made. As a note Accelerator is better.
Portals: With their high cost in IP I'd actually allow them to facilitate planar travel. It's not like Plane Shift isn't already a 7th level spell. How mobile is a portal? If I move it does it lose its link?
Planar Teleporter: I would suggest adding Plane Shift's inaccuracy.
Warp Drive: This isn't a teleportation focused class so you probably don't want to give it the ability to ignore effects that stop teleportation with something that can carry that much, that many, and that often. Then again once you've built the sealed tank... you're talking 1/3rd of your invention points. Still little too easy to get around all impediments to teleportation.
Robotics
Laser Eyes: Why? Free action 2d3 round blind every round is not balanced at level 3. It's not well balanced at much higher levels. Also why do laser eyes blind? Why do laser eyes require me to make contact with its eyes? I think you need to recheck what a gaze attack is.
Gatling Gun: 8d6 damage is too much at Lv 3 for at-will aoe damage. Of course you can't actually use it till 11th with dinosaur chassis where it's actually reasonable, but that's still problematic. Notably in that you can't use Lv 5 abilities till Lv 11. At which point Piggyback System lets you do 16d6 which is also a whole lot at Lv 11. Except of course you don't have the IP to mount it on the t-rex till level 12 (so you are finally getting Lv 5 abilities at Lv 12) or the IP to mount 2 till Lv 14 (by which point your entire character is a huge storm elemental summon which is kind of meh). Unless you can full attack with it at which point you're multiplying that damage and it just gets bad again.
Railgun: At the moment you need to devote all your IP to putting this on a chassis and then... it's horribly variable (3d% is horribly variable) and leaves you requiring an hour between each attack.
I've got stuff to do, but I'll try and look over the other types later
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
More inventions would be awesome.
Maybe one invention in robotics(or a cross domain invention) for compacting one robot for carrying it and letting get out when you want?
Or the standard complete conversion in machine stuff(like the ability to turn into a robot anything) or a template for creating robot types based on creatures(loose all Ext and mag and sur stuff gain a number of arm slots depending on the number of arms and so on and deduce an invention level in function of the CR(like the invention level is equal to the CR or even to the CR+1 because players are going to choose the nicest creatures) and a number of build points increasing with the CR and the number of slots and maybe when there is a lot of slots of one kind reduce the level of the slots(when there is more than two arm decrease the level of arms slots of one per extra arm and the base level of the slots is equal to the invention level of the creature))(that is just two awful suggestions)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Okay, made a buncha adjustments, though there's a couple things I'm not as sure on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
And I'm certain there's a way to break Magic-Eater Cloak.
Not convinced, but I'll bump the cost up anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Knockout Salve: Is super sleep, and makes 5th level maneuvers look worthless... at Lv 1.
Check out the duration. Also, if you miss, it's wasted. Still, reduced it to 1 round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Mindbreaker: Should probably be higher level. Mindblank is 8th. This isn't quite as good, and takes up a little more of your daily resources, but still probably should be at least 7th.
Mind Blank Personal is 7th, and you're probably not going to want to give Mindbreaker to anyone other than yourself because that racks up a huge cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Dream Manipulator: Why is this higher level than... well most of them?
I dunno, because spending an hour to influence the dreams of the entire High Council of Whateversville and spending the rest of the night controlling the exact contents of the Mayor's dreams is really powerful?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Hardened Carapace: As CRs get higher monsters rely upon more attacks per round. DR 10 stops half of the damage from most monsters. This allows for DR 20+ That is, in fact, a problem.
If your Key Ability Mod is more than 10, I'm not sure what to say to you. That said, I've reduced it so that the KAM is halved along with the IL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Laser Cutter: Is it supposed to be fire damage? It mentions making wood burn and it would make sense for a laser, but it should state that.
It's untyped damage, much as other types of light damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Blast Shield: D&D doesn't have facing rules unless you're using a variant, also as it's an immediate action to change facing you could just make it be an immediate action to give immunity to an AoE. The part about using it as a shield brings up: does it have an ACP and more importantly is it supposed to be cover or total cover like a tower shield these are quite distinct things and should actually reference the mechanics of hiding behind one since this is not a standard facet of shields (only tower shields can be hidden behind).
Okay, let's go through this:
When you take an immediate action, you start using the shield. You also have to choose which direction you're using the shield in. You can use the shield to protect against many fireballs, and you can even throw things without taking more immediate actions (useful if you're trying to, for example, quicken spells while hiding and can't afford the swift). It doesn't have any statistics (such as ACP) that it doesn't say it does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Plague Bomb: At 1 level above Contagion this is probably too early to give a 1000 ft radius that is usable in combat.
If you want to try to use a 1000 ft radius in combat, be my guest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Midsweep is the worst especially allowing it to negate evasion, and just doesn't make much sense since as written it works with landmines.
Evasion is still useful against it, and landmines aren't "An attack you make" so it doesn't work with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Missile Launcher: Again can I full attack with this?
If you want to do that, it will involve quick draw or someone else readying actions to reload your rocket launcher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Parallel Wheels: The whole thing is a mess, and I have no idea why wheels that turn when another of them turns would spin a person onto their head.
Well, if physically attached to them, it would. What's a mess about it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Railgun: At the moment you need to devote all your IP to putting this on a chassis and then... it's horribly variable (3d% is horribly variable) and leaves you requiring an hour between each attack.
I'm not sure how to make it better without making it horribly powerful. Even 171 damage (including the fireball effect) is the kind of thing that will rip an unprotected wizard (Yes, at 20th level, there may not be such a thing as an unprotected wizard in high-OP games, but in lower OP levels there may be) to shreds - even with CON of 18, he only has 131 hit points. I don't want that to be a thing that you can do every round with no charge-up time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
I've got stuff to do, but I'll try and look over the other types later
Thanks, man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noob
More inventions would be awesome.
Maybe one invention in robotics(or a cross domain invention) for compacting one robot for carrying it and letting get out when you want?
Or the standard complete conversion in machine stuff(like the ability to turn into a robot anything) or a template for creating robot types based on creatures(loose all Ext and mag and sur stuff gain a number of arm slots depending on the number of arms and so on and deduce an invention level in function of the CR(like the invention level is equal to the CR or even to the CR+1 because players are going to choose the nicest creatures) and a number of build points increasing with the CR and the number of slots and maybe when there is a lot of slots of one kind reduce the level of the slots(when there is more than two arm decrease the level of arms slots of one per extra arm and the base level of the slots is equal to the invention level of the creature))(that is just two awful suggestions)
Having a robot that can fold up would be cool, though a robot template would be... difficult. It would probably be better if I just turned things into robots directly, rather than having a template for it.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Hey, I managed to tie for third!
I might be able to make something up for this new thing, but I'll have to see. Stuff is happening in life.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Do anyone have comments on how childish and stupid is my base class.
Should I give it better BBA?
Should I change its maneuver system because it works weirdly in a team?
Do you think that it would be too much horrible together with scry and kill?
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noob
Do anyone have comments on how childish and stupid is my base class.
Should I give it better BBA?
Should I change its maneuver system because it works weirdly in a team?
Do you think that it would be too much horrible together with scry and kill?
I would like to say that there is stuff that needs to be fixed but I'm having trouble with that since I can't understand what you are saying half the time. For now work on the wording of the post so we can see what is happening.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
So here's a thing. I'm serious I suck at naming so give me ideas here. Pretty sure the what is set in stone it's the when that gets me. So if it seems like a certain thing is coming into play at too high or low of a level, tell me. Also all the psionic stuff can be found in the Expanded Psionic Handbook. I kinda felt like no Wizards psionic class made use of the psionic focus and it was an interesting concept.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mantia
So here's a thing. I'm serious I suck at naming so give me ideas here. Pretty sure the what is set in stone it's the when that gets me. So if it seems like a certain thing is coming into play at too high or low of a level, tell me. Also all the psionic stuff can be found in the Expanded Psionic Handbook. I kinda felt like no Wizards psionic class made use of the psionic focus and it was an interesting concept.
Wanderer? Traveller? Farseer?
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jormengand
Wanderer? Traveller? Farseer?
Wandering Mind. It's funny cause of how focused he is.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Welp, Jormengand, you've really done it this time. Zaydos is actually going to have to work for his "I-Wrote-The-Most" victory.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
somebody27else
Welp, Jormengand, you've really done it this time. Zaydos is actually going to have to work for his "I-Wrote-The-Most" victory.
Sorry but I'm afraid of newspaper thwacks. Besides got too many things to make for October anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
I am sitting this one out. If I start to make something for this one thwack me with a newspaper.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaydos
Sorry but I'm afraid of newspaper thwacks. Besides got too many things to make for October anyway.
I totally read that quote. Yup. Definitely. [/sarcasm]
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Quote:
Originally Posted by
somebody27else
Welp, Jormengand, you've really done it this time.
I still don't know what else to put in, though. :smalltongue:
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Well, what my class lacks in alternate classes and PrC options, it hopefully makes up for in having mechanics designed around occult numerology. It's not every day you get to make a class whose crunch, down to most of the numbers, is also fluff.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Jormengand, are you still looking for Invention ideas? I thought of a few things when I read through the system today.
Augmentation: you have a low-level poor flight option, why not add one or two higher-level, better ones? Might tread on the Dynamicist's territory a little, but versatility doesn't hurt. Also, unless I missed something you don't have a way to increase ability scores? That seems like one of the things that goes along with enhancing people.
Demolition: A time bomb would be nice. Also, I must confess when I first read this discipline I was mainly looking for something low level a Dynamics primary could put on the front end of a booster rocket to make it a more effective weapon; perhaps a "warhead" type thing that's powerful but doesn't come with an inbuilt way to deliver it to the target? Also, a low level easily produced gun-type-thing would not be amiss. Oh wait, those are in robotics. Never mind.
Dynamics: Something to make stuff incorporeal? Could fill the empty 9th level slot pretty well I think.
Mesmerism: Didn't really look at this too much.
Repulsion: More things that protect a wide area rather then just a person could be added. Also, maybe things that block teleportation, divination, and other annoying effects?
Robotics: Swarm chassis. Also, weapons for every level besides just putting more low level weapons together; you could do something like this:
2 - Energy damage weapon
3 - Force damage weapon
4 - Area of effect energy weapon
5 - Area of effect force weapon
6 - More powerful energy weapon
7 - More powerful force weapon
8 - Massive energy weapon
9 - Massive force weapon
Also, upgrades to previous chassis that allow them to carry higher-level slots... Oh wow, I didn't even realize mouth, head, and back slots were a thing until now. Not sure what to do with that. Uh...
Back: Defensive things, movement speeds, and shoulder-mounted weapons come to mind.
Head: Senses, telepathy, AI, feats and skills, maybe ability to use magic (thinking of that robot-mage image from the top here).
Mouth: Breath weapon, swallow whole on big robots? Sorry, I can't think of a lot of things to use a mouth for.
Hybrid: Dem/Dynamics for weird missiles, like teleporting ones. Aug/Rob for limb replacements. Dyn/Aug climb, swim, and burrow speeds. Mes/Rep resist/cure mind affecting things. Mes/Rob send your mind into a robot, temporarily or permanently. Dem/Rob self destruct system. Aug/Mes freaky mind powers. Dyn/Rep defense systems for your starship. Rob/Dyn for automatic turrets for the same starship. Oh, and can multiple Inventors work together to create a hybrid invention?
Right, that's my extremely long 2 cents. Hope that was helpful and if it is not just ignore it.
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
That is indeed very useful. Keep'em coming!
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us
Four hours short of two days left!