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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Played arranged fives with Sofa, Ryo, Mind, and some pubbie. I've been playing Shyvana for most of the afternoon. I feel bad for metagoleming all of the things, but... Spoiler
Show
http://i.imgur.com/1dKiu.jpg
Shyvana's jungle is
so fast. Her W makes her farming absolutely crazy.
Oh, apparently sending a conga line of champions top to 1v1 Nasus is probably a bad idea. He got a little bit fed and started 1v3ing and junk, so it was actually a pretty boring game, but w/e. I think sofawall just wanted me to show off his 19/4/5. :smallannoyed:
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
I am starting to come to the realization that, as important as variety is to fill team comps, I just don't play much more than casters.
I thought about my gaming history, and realized that in nearly every game I have ever played, I played as a Mage.
In Morrowind, I play a Mage. In Oblivion I play a Mage. In Diablo II I played a necromancer. In Titan Quest I play as a Mage equivalent. Champions Online i play a mage-like. Hellgate: London I played a Mage-like with pets. Sword of the New World my party were all mages. In World of Warcraft I played a Mage. Anarchy Online I played a Mage with a pet. Even back when I played Maplestory and Runescape I played a Mage. Hell, even in Eve Online I flew the longest ranged ships I could find.
I guess I just like sitting back from the action and pelting things from afar or sending in my minions to do the dirty work (I really enjoyed Overlord incidentally).
This translates into my LoL play. My favorite champion in the League is also the longest ranged one (Lux). My follow up favorites are all also mages, some with "pets" of a sort. Annie, Orianna, Kennen. Supports mesh with me as well Even when I have to pick an AD carry, I pick the one with the longest base range (Caitlyn).
While I have no problems playing as the AP carry or support when playing with premades (playing these archetypes exclusively has made me quite good at them. I cannot remember the last time I didn't win my lane as any of the above listed champs.), I do encounter problems when playing with strangers. I wish more people would play ranked 5's with me, but alas, I must SoloQ instead.
When I think about it and boil it down, I realize my main problem isn't that I can only play AP carries, as I can fulfill the AD carry, support, and Tank roles just fine in a pinch.
My problem is that I don't play any junglers. Oh, I can junglemumu, but apart from that I've got nothing, and little experience in the jungle to boot.
The classic junglers like WW, Udyr, Olaf, and Nunu don't mesh with the way I enjoy playing. What I really yearn for is a Mage that can jungle with the rest of them.
Until such a champ is created (or an existing one modified to be jungle capable) I guess I will just keep laning. I will continue to envy the ability of a jungler to dictate the flow of battle in the laning phase though.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aethernox
Played arranged fives with Sofa, Ryo, Mind, and some pubbie. I've been playing Shyvana for most of the afternoon. I feel bad for metagoleming all of the things, but...
See, I look at that and I see a 50 minute long game where Shaco didn't hit level 18.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Volatar
My problem is that I don't play any junglers. Oh, I can junglemumu, but apart from that I've got nothing, and little experience in the jungle to boot.
The classic junglers like WW, Udyr, Olaf, and Nunu don't mesh with the way I enjoy playing. What I really yearn for is a Mage that can jungle with the rest of them.
Until such a champ is created (or an existing one modified to be jungle capable) I guess I will just keep laning. I will continue to envy the ability of a jungler to dictate the flow of battle in the laning phase though.
Fiddlesticks and Cho'Gath, though according to your mage preference, I don't think he/it is what you are looking for. Might try Karthus, Heimerdinger, Malzahar, Nidalee, Twisted Fate (Though he might have to build AD), Morgana, and I've also heard of some high elo person jungling Veigar to moderate efficiency (imagine the ganks). Basically you are looking at junglers that require an organized team and a lot of practice to use effectively.
You really sound like someone who belongs on an organized team though. Good luck with that.
EDIT: Ryze might be able to also, but I haven't tried it since his remake.
Edit2: I'm going to check if each can still jungle and how well. I'll report my findings once I'm done.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Volatar
I The classic junglers like WW, Udyr, Olaf, and Nunu don't mesh with the way I enjoy playing. What I really yearn for is a Mage that can jungle with the rest of them.
.
Have you tried AP Nunu? build, like, a Rod of ages, a banshee's veil, a fly hat to let them know you're pimpin', and either some CDR or bluebuff and just go to town and spam iceball all day.
Gragas seems like he ought to be a solid jungler. Barrel, chugalug, bodyslam, pop the barrel ought to clear a camp for you, the barrel slows down attack speed, and drinking reduces the damage you take. He is very long range if you can land barrels.
I heard somewhere that karthus can jungle and he's outrageously fast. My source may or may not have been Dogmantra, though, so take it with a pinch of salt and a peck of funsies.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Karthus can jungle, I hear. Does a pretty funny job of it, too. Start with blue, clear the little camps, focus your skittles first and your angst-aura second, and put a point in the Wall when you want to gank. The ult make finishing off victims even easier. I hear he clears pretty fast, too.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
I tend to favor tanky melees: Nasus, Trundle, Chogath, Definitely-Not-Blitzcrank... I think I have more fun when I use the right ability at the right time rather than just doing tons of damage in teamfights.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
So, I finally figured out what I'm doing wrong with Skarner.
I need to lay off the early game fights. It completely destroys me, and I can't actually fight until I have my RoA and Sheen. Oh, and I never understood why until now, but Wit's End is AMAZING on Skarner.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
TSM+Dyrus gaming house: Lowest Elo has to do dishes, apparently.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Apparently, extreme lulz to be had with Shyvana. Specifically, her Q in dragon form is an aoe on hit (according to what I'm reading, with someone testing it.) This includes Tiamats. Go to town, all of you Tiamats lovers.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daverin
Apparently, extreme lulz to be had with Shyvana. Specifically, her Q in dragon form is an aoe on hit (according to what I'm reading, with someone testing it.) This includes Tiamats. Go to town, all of you Tiamats lovers.
Well, she was released on a Tuesday.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kinslayer
Manamune's bonus Mana to AD mysteriously counts as part of your base AD.
I thought they fixed that. Is it still in?
No, it's not, cf. this thread (also showcasing why SweetRein totes deserves the red tag).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Volatar
My problem is that I don't play any junglers. Oh, I can junglemumu, but apart from that I've got nothing, and little experience in the jungle to boot.
The classic junglers like WW, Udyr, Olaf, and Nunu don't mesh with the way I enjoy playing. What I really yearn for is a Mage that can jungle with the rest of them.
Until such a champ is created (or an existing one modified to be jungle capable) I guess I will just keep laning. I will continue to envy the ability of a jungler to dictate the flow of battle in the laning phase though.
Well, all the junglers like to get up close and personal, and the mage junglers are no exception (Karthus, Fiddlesticks, Nunu, Amumu in descending order of mage-ness). I'd say only Karthus fits your predilection for kiting from long range, and even then there are times when he has to rush in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aethernox
Well, she was released on a Tuesday.
Just like 90% of them? :smallwink:
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Math_Mage
Just like 90% of them? :smallwink:
Yes, but 90% of them don't have a reason to build Tiamat. Clearly a conspiracy.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aethernox
TSM+Dyrus gaming house: Lowest Elo has to do dishes, apparently.
Lol, that's rather funny.
Doesn't that mean Regi is doing the dishes alot? :smalltongue:
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
toasty
Lol, that's rather funny.
Doesn't that mean Regi is doing the dishes alot? :smalltongue:
Dude, Dyrus' Elo is even lower than Xpecials.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Another forum post. Short one this time.
EDIT: Also, TSM scrimming here. I don't recognize the opponents.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
My only experience against Shyvana wasn't that bad, me (Olaf) and Teemo vs Shyvana and Vayne top lane. At first kinda back and forth but we get the edge and begin stomping them. Queue Vayne calling us hackers and rage quiting at around level 8. Suffice to say we won that game.
Also I've noticed a tendency that when I'm on blue team I win mostly and when I'm on purple I lose mostly. Anyone else have this happen to them?
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
What is everyone else's thoughts on Shyvana so far? I'm beginning to feel like something is missing in her kit (very well could be a cc or dash. Even Udyr and Skarner have some cc, with Udyr having a spammable stun and Skarner having slow and ult moving suppression.) Is she going to be able to keep up without any way besides her ult to approach champions, since MS buffs alone generally seem to not do the trick.
I have not played with or against her, though, so maybe it actually works out better in practice. I did see Colbycheeze, and I did notice that, as long as he stuck to a champion, she pulled out lots of pain on her target (dat W.) Also, does she lane decently, or is she better off in the jungle?
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Lack of CC hurts Shyvana both in lane and in jungle. She clears jungle mega fast and harasses well, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
userpay
My only experience against Shyvana wasn't that bad, me (Olaf) and Teemo vs Shyvana and Vayne top lane. At first kinda back and forth but we get the edge and begin stomping them. Queue Vayne calling us hackers and rage quiting at around level 8. Suffice to say we won that game.
Also I've noticed a tendency that when I'm on blue team I win mostly and when I'm on purple I lose mostly. Anyone else have this happen to them?
Hotshot calls blue a slight advantage, but honestly you shouldn't notice.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Alright, looked at the people I suggested jungling as. Remember that none of this is with ideal caster runes. Also remember that I was checking to see if it can be done. I make no promise on my ability to jungle at maximum efficiency.
These all assume only using Smite throughout jungle.
Spoiler
Show
Karthus: Very smooth, very easy, very fast. Can start at blue without leash. Jungle Clear: 3:38
Heimerdinger: I don't actually own heimerdinger, so this one will have to wait for a future date.
Ryze: Extremely dangerous, somewhat easy. Can start at blue without leash, but needs to port after wraiths. Jungle Clear: 4:57 This one might become significantly faster if you can figure a way not to B after wraiths (such as getting a strong pull).
Nidalee: After initial blue(very dangerous), fairly safe and easy. SLOOOOOOOOW. Can start at blue without leash. Jungle Clear: 5:15 I'd be willing to bet that she works best going Wraiths, Wolves, Blue, Golems, Red, but will have to mess with that when I have more time.
Twisted Fate: Hard, Dangerous. Be really good with card timing before attempting. I feel like I could start at blue if I was just a tiny bit more optimized or with a leash, but I just can't get that last hit in. Not so bad if you start at wraiths. Wraiths, Wolves, Blue, Golems, Red. Dangerous. Jungle Clear: 5:00
Malzahar: Dangerous and difficult. That 1% off pool really hurt him. Can start at blue without leash. Jungle Clear: 4:40
Morgana: Fairly easy, somewhat dangerous. Can start at blue without leash. Jungle Clear: 4:08
Veigar: Can't do a full clear properly. Not as bad as sounds. Wolves, Wraiths, Golems, port, Blue, Wolves, Wraiths, Golems, Red's mini minions (Don't try killing the actual red guy, as the minis will get you to 5). Buy 3 pots on port. Hit Level 5: 6:08 I want to try a little more optimization on this guy. Something for later.
Recommended: Karthus, Heimerdinger, Morgana
Possible: Twisted Fate, Nidalee, Veigar, Ryze
Fastest to Slowest: Karthus, Morgana, Ryze, Twisted Fate, Nidalee (Can't really compare Veigar and Heimer at the moment).
I feel like with a strong blue leash all of these people could work well (except Veigar, who really should start clearing minor camps first. So a pull at wolves).
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Math_Mage
Lack of CC hurts Shyvana both in lane and in jungle. She clears jungle mega fast and harasses well, though.
Overall, do you feel she has a place with the other top tier bruisers, junglers, or even melee carries?
I don't usually concern myself so much with how others feel about a champ to start, but... I don't know why, Shyvana feels very odd to me.
EDIT: Saw a vid with Dyrus going against Renekton top as Olaf. It was brutal, Dyrus pretty much didn't let him farm the entire time. Also was before the buff (by a couple of days, although the buffs didn't look like they would've helped him necessarily...)
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Okay, I have to admit that Shyvana interests me, even if she is just Renekton 2.0. It annoys me that her best skin isn't available by itself in a pack though ._.
Does she work best stacking attack speed, or is she an on-hit monster like Kog?
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daverin
Overall, do you feel she has a place with the other top tier bruisers, junglers, or even melee carries?
I don't usually concern myself so much with how others feel about a champ to start, but... I don't know why, Shyvana feels very odd to me.
EDIT: Saw a vid with Dyrus going against Renekton top as Olaf. It was brutal, Dyrus pretty much didn't let him farm the entire time. Also was before the buff (by a couple of days, although the buffs didn't look like they would've helped him necessarily...)
Think Rumble lane. That's basically how to play Shyvana, except even more up close and personal. I think she'll do fine top lane. Not as a jungler, though; clear's too dangerous and ganks are too weak.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tribble
huh. Well, bollocks. I wonder if I should still buy it on AD sona then.
It's still the most efficient damage item in the game if you have short cooldowns. Guess who has short cooldowns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Volatar
The classic junglers like WW, Udyr, Olaf, and Nunu don't mesh with the way I enjoy playing. What I really yearn for is a Mage that can jungle with the rest of them.
Karthus is a fantastic jungler, Morgana can still juuuust about manage it, Annie's actually relatively good, Gragas is great (though he tends to max Body Slam which doesn't feel very magey), if you consider Twisted Fate a caster, he can do it. Cho'Gath is one of the best sustain junglers. There's Fiddlesticks obviously, Lee Sin is basically a caster. Ezreal is also basically a caster and can jungle surprisingly well (though not particularly well). There's loads of 'em. Oh, Singed too, but he's more of a tanky mage and hardly does any casting. And Maokai. He's most fun when you build him AP, I reckon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tribble
I heard somewhere that karthus can jungle and he's outrageously fast. My source may or may not have been Dogmantra, though, so take it with a pinch of salt and a peck of funsies.
He's one of, if not, the fastest jungler. Even Stonewall gives him an S for speed because he's that dang fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Math_Mage
Hotshot calls blue a slight advantage, but honestly you shouldn't notice.
Remember when Blue team used to be OP? That was funny. (Purple cannon minions took full damage from towers)
But seriously though, the interface and control over dragon/baron fall in much more favourable places for Blue team. Personally, I think it's slightly more than a slight advantage.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Has anyone got any tips for playing Tryndamere? Working out which walls I could get through took a little bit of time, getting myself killed twice because I misjudged the wall sized and screwed myself.
In the games i've played I definitely went a bit too aggressive. I ended up 10/7/14 on him and was playing in a team that wouldn't initiate. Their team had a minorly fed Lux who was hitting 2-3 people everytime with her laser and slowly eroding health before every team fight. After a while I got fed up, called for Ashe's arrow into them, went in myself as soon as the arrow fired, dropping Lux and getting Gankplank to half health before I had to ult. I killed Gangplank during the ult, dropped Galio (who had that item that resurrects you after a few seconds) but then got away while I was trying to kill their vayne. My team did help a little bit admittidly but i've not really played a character who I felt could obliterate a team like trynda seemed to be able to.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Do you think the following would be a good way to make Tiamat worthwhile instead of gimmick?
The splash applies on-hits. Including Tiamat's splash. If an enemy is hit by multiple splashes, the on-hit is only applied once for the autoattack hit (if they were the one hit) and once for the splash (no matter how many splashes hit them).
Makes it really good at clearing out large groups of minions. Possibly also for jungling.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Talesin
Has anyone got any tips for playing Tryndamere? Working out which walls I could get through took a little bit of time, getting myself killed twice because I misjudged the wall sized and screwed myself.
I only really play him in dominion, but for there you want to start prospector blade and boots.
Get 1 level in everything at start and then max mocking shout right away. This is way more important then bloodlust on dominion because you probably will die faster then you can sustain early game.
Also at mindmill mocking shout can usually give the point at start since the -20 damage and possible slow affects all the enemy heroes whom are usually auto attacking at these low levels.
After the early game go normal tryn build with rushing an infinity edge, into either attack speed or health items (your choice).
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Hey guys, my friend always uses clarity as one of his summoners on Morgana. Is this a noob play? I've always heard that spell sucks.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qwertystop
Do you think the following would be a good way to make Tiamat worthwhile instead of gimmick?
Not really, no, the item's problems are far more deep seated than the effect of the splash (which is actually relatively okay, and would be a brokenly overpowered concept if it also applied on-hits)
Tiamat really needs a complete remake to become balanced (you could just buff all its numbers to ridiculous extremes to make it better, but then it would be OP)
First off, the splash radius is tiny. How many times have you seen someone standing that close to another target for more than one or two attacks? Currently, you're only going to hit two people for any meaningful amount of time if both people get stunned or taunted or snared next to each other. That's in addition to the fact that there's already not a huge incentive to itemise for killing two people at the same time over (say) three seconds, when you could buy an Infinity Edge or a Phantom Dancer or Black Cleaver or Triforce or any other big damage item and kill them one after the other in the same amount of time. Of course, this secondary problem would be slightly reduced by increasing the splash radius because then you'll be hitting maybe three people, or four, or you keep taking the dragon and also contributing a bit to the fight, whatever. That said, an AD carry's role is to kill one person really quickly, and Tiamat sort of goes against it.
Second problem: what the hell are the Faerie Charm and Rejuv Beads for? I mean seriously. Those are not stats that AD carries care about beyond the VERY early game, and if they do, they'll buy a Philo Stone, or a Vamp Sceptre or a Doran's whatever. Health? Pshaw, the way to itemise for health retention on a carry is lifesteal + CC reduction (phun phact: CC reduction is one of the best scaling stats for healing, especially off things like Lifesteal). Mana can be an issue, especially for the more mana hungry carries like Ezreal, but that can be solved by either more conservative play, different runes/masteries, or picking up some mana items/Blue Buffs. Anyway, these numbers are really tiny.
Thirdly, there's no big item you wanna get on Tiamat that lets you snowball. You know how when you get that first BF sword, you deal so much damage and you get much better at last hitting, and you feel like some kind of early game god? The closest Tiamat has to that is Pickaxe. Admittedly, it's as efficient as a BF sword, but it lacks the oomph of suddenly having pootons of damage from one item slot. The whole thing takes up FOUR frigging item slots when you have the components. That's a lot for the stats to be spread over. It's not a huuuuuge problem, but it's an inconvenience when compared to, say, Black Cleaver.
Finally, it doesn't scale with itself in any meaningful way. Look at all the big carry items, Infinity Edge, Black Cleaver, Bloodthirster, Phantom Dancer and Trinity Force. IE has damage, crit, AND a crit multiplier. Black Cleaver has damage, attack speed AND an armour debuff. Phantom Dancer has the attack speed/crit combo, alongside movespeed (to keep them in range for more attacks). Trinity Force has freaking everything. I left Bloodthirster to last because it doesn't scale with itself in terms of damage multiplication, but it does double tap on the lifesteal, you get the lifesteal from it, but also the AD which in turn gives you more lifesteal (the fact it's also the only high tier AD lifesteal item helps its case rather a lot, if another one came along that gave some attack speed, armour pen or crit it would probably be indisputably better)
So basically, the parts of Tiamat need more synergy, it needs a less finicky recipe, larger stat bonuses, a more reliable splash, and probably slightly higher numbers to make it more relevant later game. I'd personally make it something like Pickaxe + Pickaxe + Vamp Sceptre, give it lifesteal instead of health/mana regen, 60-ish AD instead of 50, larger splash, slightly bigger cost and call it a day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mc. Lovin'
Hey guys, my friend always uses clarity as one of his summoners on Morgana. Is this a noob play? I've always heard that spell sucks.
Yeah, it's one of the worst spells in the game. It can be used to great effect, but that relies on your opponents making mistakes and isn't worth losing the consistency of things like Cleanse, Ignite and Exhaust for (I say those three in particular because Clarity is often used to trick someone into thinking you're helpless, and that's when it's most effective). With some mana regen on your rune page and some conservative play, running out of mana should easily become a nonissue.
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Re: League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Makensha
Slowest to Fastest: Karthus, Morgana, Ryze, Twisted Fate, Nidalee (Can't really compare Veigar and Heimer at the moment).
I think you may have done this backwards.