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Re: LGBT people in the playground
I Figure I should probably post here.
I'm bi-sexual. Now, I know I don't have a big story, or anything like that. I live in a pretty tolerant area, and I've never had deal with it. Infact, it's not even my sexuality that I get discriminated the most because of. But hey, it's not a big deal.
The only thing is, I'm not officially "out of the closet" persay, because no one that I know, outside the internet, knows about it. I'm not trying to hide it, it's just never really came up in conversation (like I said, I'm in an area where all that just isn't important). The people who do know, they keep telling me that I should 'come out', but I really don't see the point in shouting out "Hey look at me, my sexual preferences differ from the norm!" unless anyone really asks.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Flame Master Axel:
If you're in my base, and then declare it's tolerant... I guess that's true.. but, wait.. HEY!
><
Khantalas: We secretly all want you back here. Again. We miss you. And I know you're reading.
For those who want to "convert": Quit trying. On both sides. People are who they are. (I don't see this in here, but, it's in rubakhin's and just something I wanted to agree with/take further).
For everyone else: I offer free hugs - as well as support anyone adding me to messengers. For hugs there too.
I really like hugs...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Bluelantern: sorry, i misunderstood you. I do know what you mean, as one of my friends is worried about hate crimes, which pisses me off because he's a really sweet guy.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SweetRein
Flame Master Axel:
If you're in my base, and then declare it's tolerant... I guess that's true.. but, wait.. HEY!
><
Khantalas: We secretly all want you back here. Again. We miss you. And I know you're reading.
For those who want to "convert": Quit trying. On both sides. People are who they are. (I don't see this in here, but, it's in rubakhin's and just something I wanted to agree with/take further).
For everyone else: I offer free hugs - as well as support anyone adding me to messengers. For hugs there too.
I really like hugs...
*nods his agreement with everything, then smothers with hugs*
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Terumitsu
-snip-I actualy am going to take a second and say thank you for helping me get this far, what with me getting to know myself better and thus now posting my personal bits here.
-snip-
To make a long story short, my self repression was the thing that gave rise to a highly active fantasy life, one that I am actualy greatful for as it now is my current crutch versus a bit of crap right now.. but that is for the next post.. anyway, I met Queen through an RP site (ironic really) and after talking and generaly a good amount of time (about six or so months) I loosened up... I attribute this a little to my fantasies being where I was mostly loose and allowed me to let my muses play as they wished. The rest is due to the fact that she is just the sort of person that you either love or don't.. I say she is still an amazing person even now that we have moved on.
-snip-
I'm glad I was useful for something. I'm glad you got something out of our relationship.
I'm so happy I could help you come to terms with your sexuality and that you listened to me when I told you it wasn't something to be ashamed of.
<3
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
By the way, for those people here with struggles of a nature personal enough (or board un-friendly enough) that they don't feel able to post to this thread: I have a PM-box that would love to hear from you.
I'm not exactly an expert on most subjects, but I can offer a sympathetic ear, a hug, and I can usually think of something helpful to say... so, yeah. I'm here if anyone needs me.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Can I use this thread as more specific version of the Depresion thread?
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Absolutely. That's partially what it's here for.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
"You have no plan, soon, you'll be duped or something and have all your money taken, then you'll be forced to turn tricks on the side of the road. How far can you bend over?"
"Pretty far."
"A sensible person wouldn't even consider that."
"Well, I'm not sensible."
"You talk about going to San Fransisco, are you gay?"
"No... more lesbian..."
"I don't think you have the tools for that."
"Well... I'm trying to change..."
"Yeah, right."
Sigh... does it count as coming out if they believe you're joking?
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
It counts as trying, Rex. I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to think you've got a reputation as being a smart alec, Rex. If it's something you really want your friends to know, keep at it. They'll get the message eventually.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
That was actually me and my Mom. *sigh* Well, I guess they'll realize sooner or later, that I satire, not joke. But I always get mistaken for being Ironic...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raven T.
I sit here and read. I read about the problems you have just because of who you are (I'm steering clear of this military discussion because, quite frankly, I don't know what my stance is anymore.) I do not, and my never, have to deal with it on a daily basis. I do not even know if I can fathom the difficulties people have on a daily basis.
What right do I have to offer support if I cannot understand your situation? What permits me to even sit here and listen to you speak of the acts that others do to you?
You folks have strength I could never dream of having. I applaud you for getting up every day and surviving the slings and arrows of your lives.
Quoted for Truth
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Action is a good means of showing seriousness if they won't take you serious otherways - just - don't do anything stupid, Rex. I don't want a dispute being drawn up because of me... and more importantly I don't want someone hurt at all for silly actions.
When I say action, I don't mean get a plane ticket. The worst thing to do would be to head to this city with only dreams in tow. It's expensive, very expensive... and one can easily find themselves without food.
Perhaps you just need to sit down with her, once, face to face and try to explain as best as you can - removing all 'smart alec' answers.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Oh. I can see how that would feel even worse... :smallfrown:
Well, it may be for the best. Reading your posts here and in other threads, I have to confess I'm not entirely sure how you view yourself, and the mixed messages I'm reading (misreading) seem to be saying that you don't really know for sure, either. Is this wrong? Maybe you should take a little more time to look inward, and make sure you know what you see before you start telling your parents. But, if you know it's time... well, how you approach things depends on your specific situation. If you really need or want your mother to know, then you're probably going to have to press the issue, and show her you're not just being ironic...
edit: Reina said it better. She usually does...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
I know, I know, which is why I need the playgrounds help. Help me get in gear so I can get accepted into a dorm college. Help me by finding loophole, motivation, anything, so I can just get the hell away from me.
I have Duality in spirit, I feel like a man trapped in a woman trapped in a man's body, if you understand me.
Spirit is female, mind and body are male. Though I don't act like nor look like a woman, I feel that I won't be truly happy until I do.
[hr]
I've admitted to wanting to cross-dress before at a party, again, it was mistaken for a joke. Note: Ricky is my cousin, and we are quite comfortable with ourselves to joke about being gay with each other, sometimes to the point where groping is involved. This does not mean that we're gay for each other, just disturbing as Hell.
*Across the room, Rex sits, staring at his computer, Ricky and friends are talking.*
"So, yeah, you see Curtis sitting over there, he used to like wearing woman's clothes before he came over and I straightened him out."
*Rex, still staring at the computer, calls out to him.*
"You didn't fix that!"
Everyone just stopped, computing what I had just said, a really nerve wracking moment for me, and then everyone thinks that it's a joke, and laughs.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Curtis is your name? It's a bit confusing to follow the last part.
It's very easily possible to not wish to be defined by either - or even defined by both - genders. Doing so is another set of issues, however. Try to make sure you know what you want, as Phoe has said.
I wasn't exactly taken serious at first either. So... I ensured of it later. People in groups have the mind of the group - which is not at all what they usually think themselves. Many people are afraid to accept or see for fear of the group not accepting them for accepting another.
What I did for a few friends, was take them out to eat. Then used that as the opportunity. They are stuck there to the food, to the topic, to the occasion. Since it would be so specific, I find that it gets the message through the most sure way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhoeKun
edit: Reina said it better. She usually does...
I said it differently, can't be usually... I can't even speak in an irish accent! :smalltongue:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rex Idiotarum
I've admitted to wanting to cross-dress before at a party; again, it was mistaken for a joke.
Everything you say, people think it's a joke. Who are you, Patrick Bateman or something?
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Yeah. Using direct quotes. Yeah, Androgyny is my goal. Can I get a job where I can be male one day and female the next?
As for coming out... yeah, right. I won't make any big deal, and only hope that is what I'm doing is working, that they'll figure it out. Although, one of my friends is he president of the Gay/Straight Alliance ((I have no clue how he got that...)), so if I show up there, and share my feelings, he'll probably notice something.
Me? Gender Confused? Definitely.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
From the sounds of things, you need a lifestyle that gives you enough free time to present yourself as female when you feel like it... I don't think you're going to find an occupation that would accept you cross dressing every so often. Although, to say it right off the bat, college is a great place for that sort of thing. Here at good old Ohio Wesleyan, nobody so much as bats an eyelash at much of anything, least of all the professors. If that isn't some sort of motivation to get moving to become acceptable college material, then I'm not sure I can help you there.
On another note: have you tried presenting yourself as a girl recently (offline)? If so, have you found it provided you with the necessary release you're looking for?
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
I admire my girlish figure in the mirror, but I'm too embarrassed to go much further, too much lack of moral support. I have a slim waist, but good hips.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
[muttering]Lucky... wish I had good hips...[/muttering]
Er... *ahem* Can those of us here in the playground count as moral support? I think you'd benefit from knowing how you feel taking it up another level or two, even if that just means admiring your girlish figure in front of the mirror in a skirt. Especially after the advent of the self-checkout, it isn't too terribly hard to get yourself an outfit or two without arousing anyone's suspicion (if such is a concern for you. It certainly has been for me...). Experiment. Go as far as you feel comfortable going. Maybe even take pictures for reference later, to see yourself outside the heat of the moment...
These are the sorts of things I think you'll have to do if you want to know how you feel about yourself. A dress never killed anyone, at least.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhoeKun
A dress never killed anyone, at least.
I've experienced three near-death experiences, and two (at least, to my knowledge) were directly resultant of situations involving of dresses. Don't talk as if you know what they're capable of.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Hm.. Phoe, if you can come with me to the store or whatnot so I don't chicken out, then I guess you could count as moral support.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Believe me, if I had any idea where you were, and could get there with any degree of ease, I would be there.
In lieu of that, consider this: I did it. My heart was pounding outside of my chest before I even got in the car to go shopping, and I left the store three times before I finally got up the nerve to start grabbing things, and after I got out I had to wait almost twenty minutes before my arms stopped shaking enough that I could safely drive, but I did it. And if I can, can't you?
I think so.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Rex, fear is something that holds a lot of people away from doing the things they want to - and while it's important to note for what reasons fear is reasonable, you need to assess what it is that truly makes you hesitate, and if it's something you should let control your life.
I know that if I ever had a friend outwardly declare themselves to be someone like yourself, I would greatly respect them for their courage, and would certainly support them. You, as you've noted, are not taken seriously in regards to this situation. If you want local support, you need to take extra efforts to show that you are serious. This might mean you may not get support until you take your first steps in this new direction.
If you are embarrassed, consider this: if any of your friends will treat you unfairly because they realize you have the feelings you do, are they really your friends? Are they even worth your time? I'd say no. I think any real friends would be glad to help you, once they realized the situation.
Friends are not the only thing to consider, of course. You may not feel accepted by the public. My advice is to not to let these feelings define you entirely - show you are still a person with depth and character. Don't let anyone put you down, because if you're a person who is worthy of respect, and only an ignorant person would be so distracted by your physical appearance, and unwilling to treat you fairly. Unfortunately, there are many ignorant people around, but if you don't let people push you around, I don't think as many people will give you a hard time.
There is always the family to consider - and I bet that can be very hard to deal with. Even our parents and siblings can lack understanding and compassion, and I doubt that's ever an easy thing to accept. But, I think it'd be good to remind you that as with friends, any family member that loves you loves you for who you are, not what you look like or enjoy doing. Your appearance may change, but you're doing what makes you feel right, and that's something others should accept if they truly have any love for you.
I hope I managed to say something helpful, in that idiot's disaster of words.
Best wishes.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Well, I don't fall into any of these letters here, but file me under "A" for Ally. You crazy kids just keep doing what you're doing.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhoeKun
[muttering]Lucky... wish I had good hips...[/muttering]
Er... *ahem* Can those of us here in the playground count as moral support? I think you'd benefit from knowing how you feel taking it up another level or two, even if that just means admiring your girlish figure in front of the mirror in a skirt. Especially after the advent of the self-checkout, it isn't too terribly hard to get yourself an outfit or two without arousing anyone's suspicion (if such is a concern for you. It certainly has been for me...). Experiment. Go as far as you feel comfortable going. Maybe even take pictures for reference later, to see yourself outside the heat of the moment...
These are the sorts of things I think you'll have to do if you want to know how you feel about yourself. A dress never killed anyone, at least.
You know...You've really, really made me want to try on one of my friends dresses, or skirts, or something...We always joke about it but for some reason never get around to it...Must do that some time over the holidays...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Sorry if this is long, I've been meaning to read this thread since I noticed it, but this week has been crazy busy and I wanted to give it the time it deserved, so I apologize for being a bit late coming into the conversation.
Obligatory reminder to steer clear of sex and politics.
Okay, with that out of the way....onto the actual content of my post. Thank you for starting this SMEE, it's an important issue and good to have an outlet where people can get support. *hugs for everyone* I applaud and support you all, and realize the courage it takes and how difficult it can sometimes be to put yourselves out there and share things like this, even on as tolerant a board as gitp is. So kudos to everyone that's posted here. *An extra hug for SotS and Vael cause you make me go awwww*
As for myself, I am straight, but have a great many friends that identify themselves with one or the other of these categories, and consider myself very accepting in general. Although, I wasn't always, really. Back in middle and high school, I was teased, a lot, about being a lesbian. I had a boyfriend break up with me because his sister convinced him that I was gay. I wasn't and this really upset me. I didn't have anything against lesbians, I just didn't want to be considered one. I think this actually affected my behavior in high school a lot, and kind of ended up with me well...seeing a lot of guys, I guess would be the best way to put that..and I'm not really proud of the person I was back then, at all.
I then gave the topic little consideration at all until earlier this year when I became appalled to find myself engaged to someone who considered anyone with different views to himself a 'freak' and who made mean and cutting remarks towards them. This was actually one of the bigger things that made me realize things might not work out.
Truthfully though, it was SMEE that made me really reconsider my ideas about myself and about this topic. When I found out she had a crush on me (back in the crushes thread, months ago), I gave the idea serious consideration and was actually surprised to find that the deterrent was the fact that she was on a different continent, not anything related to sexual orientation. And that while I consider myself straight, I'm not actually opposed to the idea of being with another girl. Of course, I don't think I ever will be....but that's more a product of hoping my current relationship lasts forever, than anything else.
On a slightly tangential note, this topic is particularly timely for me, as I am currently in midst of doing a project and writing a paper on transgendered individuals. In that vein, I was wondering if anyone that has posted here would be opposed to my pulling things from the posts in this thread for my paper. And also, if anyone would be interested in being interviewed regarding their experience with transsexualism. :smallredface:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
* hugs Alarra *
You can use any bit of information I've posted here in your paper.
Also, as I said before, I'm willing to be interviewed as well. You know where to find me. :smallsmile:
Phoe: Aye... buying the first dress is a thriving experience. I felt the same way when I bought my first one. :smallredface:
Rex: I'm about to leave for work, but I'll post some advice for you during the days.
Hugs for everyone. :smallsmile:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
But. . .if you take the premise that a certain person who loves to be contrary for intellect's sake would take some socially awkward position for a joke's sake. . .it works, it really does! That's the humor of this house at least. Maybe bracket it with I Am Being Serious Here flags instead of trying to drop it into plausibly deniable situations?
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Yeah, allows me to feel I've admitted it, but doesn't make people think any less of me. You know what, I really don't care about how people perceive me. Never really have, don't know why I would now... I'm going to torture some sales associates.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
This thread is making me seriouly regret my username.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
There you go, Rex! That's the attitude to have! :smallbiggrin:
@Alarra: I don't have any problem being used as a source for your paper, either by my posts or by interview. Onward, serendipity! :smallwink:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
I'm a straight guy, but I think what you folks are doing is great. Good luck with the email list.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
I've been thinking thw whole day on what to say to you Rex.
You seem to be quite confused on how you percieve yourself, which is nothing unusual for someone within your age (you're 17, if I recall correctly).
So, first thing I belive you should do is try to cross dress in order to find out how you feel in "girl" mode. You trully need to do that clear up some confusion in your mind.
If you think you won't have guts to buy the needed clothing, try to do this:
First, try to find out what are your measures.
With that numbers at hand, go shopping. Tell the clerk you're looking for some clothing to give to your sister, cousin or girlfriend. The clerk clearly doesn't need to know that it's for you, nor anyone else at the shop.
Then hand him over the measures and choose between what he shows you.
You'll surelly find something that will apraise to you.
Then buy it.
It's quite easy, actually. :smallsmile:
After you cross dress for the first, you'll find some direction.
Hugs,
Beatrice.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
'lready in hose... Make my legs stand out. Surprisingly comfortable. No one asked, but I was planning to do what I always do in such situation, tell the truth so it sounds like sarcasm.
I'm nineteen, and now once I accepted it, my brain's focusing all the memories of stuff relating to this. I'm pretty sure my mom has an idea, because she once asked me to sit down with her while she was watching a thing on transgenderism. I was in awe the whole way through the program. It's been on my mind for a while, but I suppressed it to lead at least a semi-normal life, I have no clue why I did that. Even so, there are quite a few times when I absolutely freaked because of little things, I realize that it was like my cover was being blown. Like when they gave me a blouse to wear at McDonald's, because they ran out of men's shirts. It was surprisingly comfortable, and felt good in a bad way.
Like I said, I don't care anymore...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Good to hear that you sorted it out. :smallsmile:
And hoses are trully confortable. Too bad I can't stand using them during summer...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Indeed. I wish I owned some... well, really I just wish I had a more robust wardrobe, but... money is the enemy. Or lack of it, anyway.
Anyway... congratulations, Rex, on accepting yourself. I hope it's a step that will help you in other areas of life, as well. :smallsmile:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
... and my mom freaked, thinking I stole hers.:smallannoyed:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
O.o
I understand the intent...
but just...no. Not here.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Bluelantern: you need to remove that link. That is so far out of line with the forum rules that it isn't funny...
This isn't the place for that.
edit: Rex - keep us posted, if you wouldn't mind. I'm not really sure what to make of your mother's initial reaction, although I imagine it is just that. See how she handles this later.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhoeKun
Bluelantern: you need to remove that link. That is so far out of line with the forum rules that it isn't funny...
This isn't the place for that.
edit: Rex - keep us posted, if you wouldn't mind. I'm not really sure what to make of your mother's initial reaction, although I imagine it is just that. See how she handles this later.
I deeply apologize >.<
I only think in the site that I posted as a forum, I only go there for it. >,<
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhoeKun
A dress never killed anyone, at least.
Are you so sure about that? Feast your eyes upon this monstrosity!
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Does anyone have information on LGBT charities? I'm active in my school's GSWA and were looking for a worthy charity.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rama_Lei
Does anyone have information on LGBT charities? I'm active in my school's GSWA and were looking for a worthy charity.
If you're British I always suggest the LLGS and Childline if you want to support LGBT charities. I know Childline isn't really LGBT, but it helped me out a lot.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
We have two anonymous e-mails today.
I'll post them now and I'll be back to comment on them later, my anonymous friends. Now I need a small nap to get myself back together.
Edit: Okay, I'm rested enough and I'm have a clear mind now. Let me try to adress the posts below, then. :smallsmile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Person
Ok, this story is rather long and I am somewhat hesitant to post it. To be quite honest I was very, very impressed by the openness and support everyone has shown and I wanted to share my story, even though it's of a somewhat different nature from the others, but would hopefully be deemed partially relevant.
Let me start off by saying that I am a 24 year old straight male.
For years and years I had two close male friends who were two years younger than me. We met while in High School. We would see each other almost every day during high school. Things were great. I went off to college, and we saw less of each other but still remained very close friends. One of them went to a very selective school in the Boston area. Well, he left school after only a year having been diagnosed w/ depression.
After school me and him became closer, if anything. He was struggling w/ the depression and did a stint or two in a local hospital. Well, he would always get upset at me whenever I went to my girlfriend's house. Part of the depression came from his relationship with his family, I was told. He spent so much time at my house that he moved in. I was living at home and working. My parents were cool with it and everything. Through his depression he was borderline suicidal and would cut his arms with a razor. Then after a while he confessed to me that he had feelings for me. He told me he thought I may be gay. I wasn't. He first told me it was only emotional, at which point I was relieved to hear that it wasn't physical. But there was a lot of pressure. He had bascally convinced me that if we would "do stuff" it could help him get over his depression. That it could save his life. I was uncomfortable with the situation and torn between the desire t help a friend and a distaste at being forced into such a position. Basically, my answer was no. I refused to be forced into doing something that really wasn't me.
Unfortunately things got worse and worse. He would ask for little things. He wanted me to hug him. For like minutes at a time. Friends should be able to hug, he would say. He wanted to know if I had been on a sports team, what I would have done. He couldn't believe that I wouldn't "do anything, even to save his life." Once I woke up to find him sleeping in my bed (though not touching me) at which point I went downstairs. And the whole time he vehemently insisted that he wasn't gay. That it was just me. That he still likes girls. I gave in in small ways (hugs, ect), but never anything sexual...
He despised the hospital so much that he told me that if it came to it, he would kill himself before they took him back. So I didn;t tell anyone. Anyway, he wrote an email to me exressing his feelings which somehow my parents got their hands on. (I think they have the ability to access my aol mail) And they called the cops and an ambulance. I was happy that I could truthfully tell him that I did not tell on him, but I sorta wish in hindsight I had said something.
Anyway, for months this continued on and off. He would tell me it was over and his feelings had changed and then admitted a few weeks later that it wasn't true.
Eventually I think he realized that nothing was going to happen so we stopped talking. We had tried this before and it hadn't worked. He had bee my best friend for 7-8 years... But we don't talk anymore. Still have some mutual friends, so I ask how he's doing every once in a while.
It's easy to say that it was the worst period of my life. It was stressful and painful. In looking back, I feel like I was manipulated a lot.
Honestly, I don't know what I expect you guys to say. Heck, I don't know what there is TO say. I saw everyone else's story and felt compelled to tell mine...
First, my anonymous friend, let me offer you hugs. * hugs *
From what I see, he was projecting his own frustrations over you, and you didn't know exactly how to deal with it. He was so desperate for help, and saw you as a safe port.
He was the one who was confused about his own sexual identity (mostly likely due to his depression). You did what a caring friend would do.
I'm glad to hear that it's over.
Once again, hugs.
Beatrice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Person
I'm straight, as a guy, I like girls. But sometimes, I wish I was a lesbian. As in, born a girl who liked girls. I don't find the idea of a sex change appealing, it's not the same, I don't feel like I should have been a girl, or I'm in the wrong body, I just, wish I was. What would you call that? I don't know. Just wanted to say that. Cheers.
My friend, that's all about curiosity and fantasies. Nothing wrong with you at all. :smallsmile:
Hugs for you as well.
Beatrice.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Well, First Anonymous E-Mailer, I think you must've been through hell, and I'm really sorry for you. But it seems like your friend was obviously going through some rough times, mentally, and maybe physically, so you can't really blame him for it - though I would advocate staying the heck away from him, especially if he worries you quite so much. It seems he was manipulating your status as a friend snd as a good and honest person - and for me, that's as good a reason as any for wanting to terminate the friendship. Huh, I may have just contradicted myself. :smallredface:
Second Anonymous Person, I must say that you're just dreaming. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and people do it all the time. I'd just say you're being perfectly normal - you're curious. Everyone is. :smallsmile: :smallwink:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Hi everyone! Longtime reader and forum lurker here. :smallsmile: It’s this thread that finally made me sign up. I actually sort of stumbled into here through someone’s sig, but I’m glad I did. It’s so great to read about everyone’s stories, some of which I have certainly been able to identify with. Thumbs up and huggles to all of you! I’ve also been looking for a place to bring my experiences more in the open and I think this would be the perfect place to at least make a start.
I’m of the male sex and though perhaps some future discovery may make me look at it differently, that’s how I’ve always seen myself. However, as far as gender goes I do not consider myself fully male, nor fully female. I can’t fit myself into the traditional gender roles and identify as pangender: both male and female, yet at the same time neither, something completely different from those two. My change in gender identification (which was a relatively recent one) went pretty much hand in hand with a change in my sexuality: while I had considered myself heterosexual all my life, I came to see myself since several months more and more as pansexual.
It’s been like this since about February this year. At that time I was just discovering the Japanese musician Mana (of Malice Mizer and Moi dix Mois fame). When I watched a Malice Mizer video and he came in view, my jaw no less than dropped. I found him incredibly beautiful! Yes, he looked very much like woman, but I was well aware of his being a man. Yet it pretty much felt the same as when I felt attracted to a girl. It didn’t really bother me, but it I’ll admit it did feel somewhat awkward at first, since I’d never felt attraction to a man before. From that moment I started to look at men differently, mostly feminine men, and noticed I couldn’t help to think that some were actually quite attractive. For the first time in my life I thought I might be bisexual.
I joined a forum about Mana where I found a topic where a discussion was going on about his sexuality. Having those discoveries about possible different sexuality I was very interested and started reading. Quite a revelation it was. Here I first heard (or read, technically) the term ‘pansexual’ being coined. I asked myself “But what is the difference between pan- and bisexuality?” and happened to see the very same question posted there. The answer followed soon and after looking into it some more it really got me thinking. And as I thought about it more, I came to be more and more convinced, “Yes, this is me!”
So, to sort of summarize: I’m a 22-year old pangender of the male sex who is pansexual with a preference for more feminine people (whether they’re male, female, transsexual, or of any other sex). More recently I’ve also found I wanted to become more feminine myself. Not just inside, because there I’m already seeing myself as partially female and have even developed a sort of female second persona, but also appearance-wise. This also is, I think, inspired by Mana and his attempts at breaking through gender barriers. When looking in the mirror I couldn’t help but notice some feminine features in my face and I wanted to go experiment with make-up and wearing skirts, dresses and other clothing usually associated with women (I can’t stand the terms ‘women’s clothing’ or men’s clothing’ as they imply the gender barriers I’ve come to despise so much). Thus far I haven’t been very successful. I’ve secretly tried to get into my sister’s and mother’s clothes (didn’t really fit well ^^;), but hadn’t even considered actually buying clothing for myself. And I’ve only been looking at the make-up stands in the stores from some distance. I was (and kinda am) still somewhat scared I think. The tips here have been incredibly helpful though and I think armed with those tips I’ll go give it another shot. Thanks so much!
There, it’s all out! Yay! :D Besides here, I haven’t spoken about my sexuality and gender identification with anyone, for different reasons really. I think my family (my mother and sister at least) would be pretty open-minded about it, but I guess the reason I haven't spoken about it is mostly because the topic never really came up in conversations and I’m not exactly someone to go spontaneously shout things from the rooftops, or so to speak. I’m also blessed with some very great and open-minded friends. And even though I think they’d be understanding of it, I’m still a bit, scared to tell them about it. I think inside I’m afraid they’d feel awkward about and distance themselves from me. This is even the case with a friend I know over the internet and who I trust more than anyone! It’s not really that much of a desperate matter it might sound like, but I somehow think I’d feel much better if I could just bring it out them instead of keeping it to myself. I’d like them to know, but they’re very dear to me and, y’know, I don’t want to lose them. I’ll find a way, I’m certain, but for now it’s unfortunately not yet in sight.
And that concludes my overly long post. If you’ve taken your time to read it all, thanks very much (and respect :smallwink:), if not, hey, no harm done of course (it is an awfully long read! :smallbiggrin:). It felt incredibly refreshing and means a lot to me to get this all out. I want to thank SMEE and DoIHaveAName? for making this fantastic thread a reality and of course everyone else here for sharing their own experiences and supporting each other. It truly brings warmth to my heart to see this all! Thank you so much, everyone, from the bottom of my heart! *hugs everyone* :smallsmile:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Well V.Z., I congratulate you on being so honest! It's great to see you're getting so comfortable with yourself, and that you could confront any problems and post on this thread!
Yaaay! :smile:
*hugs*
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Glad to hear that this thread was of some help, V.Z. :smallsmile:
I'm happy to hear that you are comfortable with your own sexuality, and, should you need any advice, feel free to post here or PM me (if the content is not board friendly).
We'll always try to have a piece of advice to lend around here (or at least some hugs). :smallsmile:
The same goes to everyone who feels the need to open oneself to someone about such subject. My PM box is open, and so is my MSN.
I can only offer my own experience of dealing with my transsexuality, but it might be of some help. :smallwink:
So, hugs for everyone.
Beatrice.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Aw, thanks. :smallsmile: I just wanted to say again how great an inspiration this thread is to me. Honestly, ever since I posted here and got such nice replies, I'm walking with a smile on my face all day. It's so great! *hugs back* :smallsmile:
I think I'm going to carefully bring the subject up with my internet friend when he gets online. I'm pretty nervous about it. He's such an awesome guy, probably the best friend I've ever had in my life; has always been there for me when I needed him, always been someone I could trust unconditonally and feel safe with, even though I've never even met him in person. I actually think he'll be pretty cool with it. Yet, there's still that small, probably even tiny, possibility that he might feel intimidated somehow and react negatively. And that terrifies me. :smalleek: Should it? I dunnow. It's probably just the nerves about coming out to someone I know for the first time. As seen in my previous post, I'm not at all ashamed of my sexuality. It's part of who I am and I'm perfectly happy with it. But telling about it to a friend, even such a close one, for the first time, it just feels scary as hell... :smalleek:
More on the bright side. When today I noticed no one was home I took my chance and put on my sister's skirt (which surprisingly fit perfectly!) together with a shirt of my own that I thought would fit with the skirt. Then I spent some time in the mirror. I felt, absolutely wonderful! And this might sound a bit Kenobi-ish, but it was like setting my first step in a new world! Once I get the chance, adding a hose will probably be the next step! *excited!* :smile:
EDIT: Just read through my message again after posting. Wow, talk about mood swings. :smallbiggrin:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
V.Z.
Aw, thanks. :smallsmile: I just wanted to say again how great an inspiration this thread is to me. Honestly, ever since I posted here and got such nice replies, I'm walking with a smile on my face all day. It's so great! *hugs back* :smallsmile:
I think I'm going to carefully bring the subject up with my internet friend when he gets online. I'm pretty nervous about it. He's such an awesome guy, probably the best friend I've ever had in my life; has always been there for me when I needed him, always been someone I could trust unconditonally and feel safe with, even though I've never even met him in person. I actually think he'll be pretty cool with it. Yet, there's still that small, probably even tiny, possibility that he might feel intimidated somehow and react negatively. And that terrifies me. :smalleek: Should it? I dunnow. It's probably just the nerves about coming out to someone I know for the first time. As seen in my previous post, I'm not at all ashamed of my sexuality. It's part of who I am and I'm perfectly happy with it. But telling about it to a friend, even such a close one, for the first time, it just feels scary as hell... :smalleek:
More on the bright side. When today I noticed no one was home I took my chance and put on my sister's skirt (which surprisingly fit perfectly!) together with a shirt of my own that I thought would fit with the skirt. Then I spent some time in the mirror. I felt, absolutely wonderful! And this might sound a bit Kenobi-ish, but it was like setting my first step in a new world! Once I get the chance, adding a hose will probably be the next step! *excited!* :smile:
EDIT: Just read through my message again after posting. Wow, talk about mood swings. :smallbiggrin:
The nerves come with the territory. Your sexuality and gender identity are very personal issues that carry a lot of importance for you, so it's natural to be nervous about telling someone else, even if that person is a trusted friend. You've got something of an advantage that you're doing this online, though, so keep your spirits up, and good luck! :smallsmile:
I'm happy you were able to find a skirt that fits you, too. Did you take note of the size? That will help (somewhat; sizing is a very relative thing) if and when you decide to buy some clothes for yourself...
@Anonymous #1: I'll echo earlier sentiments and say that it looks like your friend was manipulating you while in the depths of his depression. Depression is a terrible experience that can lead people to do some horrible things. It was still your friend's decisions and actions that began the problems you've had with him, so I'd still recommend not getting closer to him again, but if you think back on it, try to remember that he wasn't himself back then. Also, remember that you were being a friend and doing what you thought would help him at the time, so don't ever let this reflect badly on how you view yourself!
@Anonymous #2: I don't think there's much out of the ordinary going on with you. Which is to say, I don't think there's anything out of the ordinary with you. I've never met anyone who wouldn't want to try out the other gender for a day or two... fantasies are perfectly fine. Maybe one day, they'll discover a way to reversibly change someone's gender. Which I'm sure will play hell with society for a while, but hey, won't it be fun? :smallwink:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhoeKun
Maybe one day, they'll discover a way to reversibly change someone's gender. Which I'm sure will play hell with society for a while, but hey, won't it be fun? :smallwink:
That's quite, quite worrying. :smalleek:
Yet strangely.. interesting. :smallredface: Yes. I agree. It will, most certainly be fun. :smallsmile:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
I have to say, from my perspective, people seem to be talking more about the cross-dressing type of transgender than anything else...
I don't know, maybe it just because of how I think. But seriously? Skirts? Dresses? Hose? How much do they really have to do with identifying as a woman? Maybe acting the part of a stereotypical woman, but otherwise...
Some of it, I can understand, but if you begin focusing on that, you'll begin to externalize your identity, and won't that just end up making you a transvestite?
Me? I have no real desire to go paint my nails, or wear pretty dresses and that kind of thing. Yet, still, I prefer identifying myself as a woman. Being a woman does not make me want to wear a dress all the time.
See my avatar? That's how I picture myself, ideally, in my mind's eye. Those clothes it has on? I already wear those. I'm comfortable with them- I like how they look (on a woman OR a man). That's not preventing me from identifying as a woman, either- they're just clothes.
I'm not against cross-dressing, I'm not against transvestites. I'm just wondering if people (possibly even myself) are getting the two confused. Perhaps transgendered men just more commonly like to be extremely feminine- I don't know. I only have myself to base it off of.
What I do know is that women around me don't tend to wear dresses most of the time. Are you expressing yourself, or giving into a stereotype by deciding to put on a dress? Is it you? Can you be sure that the dress and your mindset match? Will putting on a random piece of clothing truly identify how you feel about yourself?
...maybe. But I don't think it is for everyone. Certainly not for me. More femininely cut pants and shirts sound fine, but I'll leave the dresses for others.
Your identity is not based off of how you look- I should think that would be extremely obvious considering we're talking about transgender people. Maybe it is obvious to others- maybe this post isn't going to help anyone but me (because I got to think things through as I typed it). Changing your look to fit your identity is fine, but make sure that the look you're giving yourself IS the identity you want.
Summary: Just because you identify as a woman doesn't mean you identify as someone who wears dresses and skirts.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
But I'd look so cute in a skirt. Feel better too... It's weird... I put on my guy cut pants, and it just doesn't fit right. It doesn't conform to me. That's when I feel like I'm cross-dressing.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Vael, that's normal. :smallsmile:
Some people feel that women clothes such as dresses, skirts and other stuff such as make up, painted nails and jewellery help them to percieve themselves as a woman. I am one of those persons. :smallsmile:
You preffer to go with gender neutral clothing and feel no need to try traditional women wear in order to feel like a woman. And that's perfectly fine too. :smallsmile:
The most important thing is that one feels comfortable with oneselves. :smallsmile:
Hugs.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vael
I have to say, from my perspective, people seem to be talking more about the cross-dressing type of transgender than anything else...
I don't know, maybe it just because of how I think. But seriously? Skirts? Dresses? Hose? How much do they really have to do with identifying as a woman? Maybe acting the part of a stereotypical woman, but otherwise...
Some of it, I can understand, but if you begin focusing on that, you'll begin to externalize your identity, and won't that just end up making you a transvestite?
Me? I have no real desire to go paint my nails, or wear pretty dresses and that kind of thing. Yet, still, I prefer identifying myself as a woman. Being a woman does not make me want to wear a dress all the time.
See my avatar? That's how I picture myself, ideally, in my mind's eye. Those clothes it has on? I already wear those. I'm comfortable with them- I like how they look (on a woman OR a man). That's not preventing me from identifying as a woman, either- they're just clothes.
I'm not against cross-dressing, I'm not against transvestites. I'm just wondering if people (possibly even myself) are getting the two confused. Perhaps transgendered men just more commonly like to be extremely feminine- I don't know. I only have myself to base it off of.
What I do know is that women around me don't tend to wear dresses most of the time. Are you expressing yourself, or giving into a stereotype by deciding to put on a dress? Is it you? Can you be sure that the dress and your mindset match? Will putting on a random piece of clothing truly identify how you feel about yourself?
...maybe. But I don't think it is for everyone. Certainly not for me. More femininely cut pants and shirts sound fine, but I'll leave the dresses for others.
Your identity is not based off of how you look- I should think that would be extremely obvious considering we're talking about transgender people. Maybe it is obvious to others- maybe this post isn't going to help anyone but me (because I got to think things through as I typed it). Changing your look to fit your identity is fine, but make sure that the look you're giving yourself IS the identity you want.
Summary: Just because you identify as a woman doesn't mean you identify as someone who wears dresses and skirts.
It's certainly valid commentary, Vael, but there is one important thing to keep in mind. There is only one real reason why anybody wears things like that: they like how they look and feel in them.
Clothes don't make the girl, and they certainly don't make me. But, as I've experimented with various types of clothing and accessories, I've found a bunch of things I like. And personally, I think the only way to find out if all these things are for you is to try them, which is what I've been encouraging others to do.
But you're right; it's definitely important to maintain perspective. You are not more of a woman if you put on a dress. Find yourself, not some other person...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Rex- if you like it, good. Wear it. It's you. I'm not arguing against it, just saying that's not all there is.
SMEE- I was trying to focus more on others, but I'll admit that it was a bit of me trying to reconcile what I was seeing and what I was thinking. *hugs*
Thanks. :smallsmile:
Phoe- Yeah, I just felt like keeping things in perspective for people. Trying it out is one thing, thinking that it is the only option is quite another.
I still support the things you've recommended, I just don't think they should be the only view out there. :smallsmile:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
After reading Alarra's long post I feel like I've been in a similar position. Well, not that drastic really. But in several occasions I have found that people might perceive me as gay and I don't like it. Mainly because I don't like people to mistake me for something I'm not, no matter if it's for being gay, for being erm, a heavy metal fan or a serial killer or anything :S Not that there's anything wrong with any of those (except serial killer :p).
When I met my now ex girlfriend, a female friend of her, well, more like a classmate who hung with us kinda projected that she perceived me as bi or something. Gladly this didn't hinder my blooming relationship with my ex as she knew this was not the case and was secretly hoping it wasn't like that.
This has to do with that, with the fact that it makes me uncomfortable to be thought of as homosexual because I'm not. I feel it reduces my already slim chances with the opposite sex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Midnight Son
'Slike I said a few pages back. I'm 100% straight and even I think he's dead sexy. Meet Joe Black was great, though I was much more interested in Claire Forlani. The one that did it for me was Legends of the Fall. Damn, if he were a girl, he'd have another stalker...:smallbiggrin:
Hmmm...I'm fully straight too and I really can't find Brad Pitt attractive. And definitely not when you have Ms. Forlani's beutiful eyes to look at instead of him *shrugs*
In any case, I think this thread is an amazing thing to have, and I'd like to express my support for anyone who's trying to be more themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Serpentine
Wait... If homosexuals weren't allowed in the army in bygone days... does that mean it could be a conscription dodge?:smallconfused:
Yeah, Serpentine. Here it was too. Well, before they ended with conscription after a case of a guy that was kinda hazed to death :s
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rex Idiotarum
No one asked, but I was planning to do what I always do in such situation, tell the truth so it sounds like sarcasm.
Regx, personally I think one of your problems might be exactly that. If you want to be taken seriously (or take yourself seriously) you have to tell the truth like you mean it. It's more difficult, sure. But if something you're saying is your truth, it deserves to be taken as that. Just 2c.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Hello. First I'd like to say that this is a wonderful thread & that I enjoyed reading everyone's story. I want to give everyone here my love & support.
Here is my story:
I was born in the mid 70's in Michigan, a genetic male. When I was around 4, I (barely) remember my sister dressing me in girl clothes. What I remember most is how wonderful it felt to be wearing dresses & the admiring "Isn't he cute!" from both my grandma & my mom. It's one of my happiest memories. Unfortunately, it was also short lived.
FF to 8-9 y.o. My older (3 yrs.) "friend's" dad gets a job as truck driver. He has this huge rig parked in his driveway. It was awe inspiring. So (let's call him) Jacob invites to see what the cab looks like. Well, long story short, he took advantage of my innocence. Since, at the time, I didn't know that anything wrong had happened, I didn't say anything. This happened at least twice. Years went by & I blanked it out of memory.
FF to 6th grade. I started going down to my sisters room, "borrowing" her swimsuits, and wearing them. I usually kept them for a week. After I was done with them, I'd wash them when no one was home, then replace them in her drawer. It was going so well until one day, when I was too caught up Castlevania II, my mom came into my room, while I was wearing one of Sissy's one pieces. She threw a fit & yelled at me to take it off & never do that again. I was so upset & embarrassed. But years went by & I forgot about this, also.
For the rest of my school years, I hated myself. I was shy & unable to talk to the girls I found attractive. I felt alone. My brother finally convinced me into playing football, for 8th, 9th, & 12th grades. My grades dropped from As & Bs in 6th grade, to Cs, Ds, & one E, during my High School years. I contemplated suicide, but never actually tried it.
Finally I graduated. Freedom at last!!! I thought I could join the Navy (a lifelong dream), and start my life anew. No one would know the old me, I could reinvent myself, so I thought.
While in the Navy (`94-`97), I gained a new best friend, let's call him Caleb. Caleb was as close to me as you could get without going "there". Problem was, he's a homophobe. It didn't bother me too much, I wasn't gay or anything. We were just friends. As I said before, all incidents of feminity had been forgot.
Until one night, I woke to a memory. Not a dream. Mosat deffinitely a memory. I remembered the two times I was asked into Jacob's dad's rig. It horrified me. Did this make me gay? Could I tell Caleb? No, forget that. He'd turn on me in an instant. Then I remembered telling Caleb that I loved him, as a brother. I began to wonder about myself. What did I really mean by that?
Well it wasn't long & I found out that it didn't matter. Caleb turned on me anyway. I guess he couldn't even accept brotherly love from a friend. For my last year in the Navy, rumors started to be spread about me. A new recruit even hit me & broke my nose.
I got out alive & yes, I did still have good friends. Friends that accepted me for me, and didn't listen to rumors.
I moved back to Michigan. In `98, I got a job at Sam's Club (It's a warehouse store for Wal-Mart, for those who don't know). There I met Phil, Doug, & Glenn. We started playing D & D (I started playing RPG's while in the Navy. See, it's not all bad).
FF to 1999/2000. The new millenium New Year's Eve party. As we were playing around, having a time. I had a Eureka! moment. I wanted to be Tinkerbell! You might think it was the drink talking, but I still wanted to be Tink the next morning. I decided that I would dress as Tinkerbell for next Halloween. And I did. Not only that but I bought lots of dresses, bikinis, skirts, & yes BRAS!! I have 2 pairs of fake breasts. I loved it. I felt ALIVE!!! It was during this time of revelation that I my mind opened up the memories of dressing up years before (my mom swears she doesn't remember the swimsuit incident, and I don't press it).
I decided that I wanted to be a woman. I started looking into GRS, and found that it was going to be hard work (I so empathize with you SMEE). I got my nails done, I'd already let my hair grow long since I left the Navy.
But it wasn't all great. I love women, not men. I want to have children, with a woman. Wearing fingernail polish is a huge taboo in dating circles in Michigan. I could move, but I have a great job in the Post Office. The pay is great & the benefits are better than most other jobs. So I've slowed down. I still cross dress, occassionally.
I've told all my friends, and they are all supportive. One even offered to go with me to Canada when I got my GRS. I've also told, my sister, mother, grandma, and my aunt. No one has ostracized me because of it. Some may just be in denial. But I know for sure that my mom & sister have my back. I still believe that I am a woman trapped inside this man's body & dream of being reborn as a woman. That's my story.
So my question for you is: What am I? Transgendered, Transsexual, just a Cross-Dresser?