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Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
So, I had the idea to have a sort of vote for the absolute worst of the worst in 3.x: stuff that makes you really blanch on sight. I'm keeping track of the top ten by vote in a short table, and all the other suggestions in a much longer one.
Everyone gets up to ten votes, and you can put up to three of them on the same suggestion (yours, or someone else's), or put up to one negative vote per suggestion you disagree with, which counts as one of your ten total; you can redistribute votes at will. Also, try to keep suggestions as tight and self-contained as possible: rather than saying "Sarrukh", try "Manipulate Form"; rather than "Wizard", try "Shapechange". Finally, please try to make all votes clear, to reduce the possibility of misinterpretation.
The Top Ten
# |
Name |
Type |
Votes |
1 |
Truenamer |
Base Class |
31 |
2 |
PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange |
Spell |
26 |
3 |
Iron Heart Surge |
Maneuver |
25 |
4 |
dust of sneezing and choking |
Item |
21 |
5 |
epic spellcasting |
Rule |
16 |
6 |
alignments |
Rule |
15 |
7 |
Cancer Mage |
Prestige Class |
13 |
8 |
drowning |
Rule |
13 |
9 |
Sarrukh's Manipulate Form |
Ability |
13 |
10 |
candle of invocation |
Item |
12 |
13 dishonorable mentions (at least 5 votes):Spoiler
Show
# |
Name |
Type |
Votes |
11 |
Diplomacy |
Skill |
12 |
12 |
Paladin code |
Class Feature |
10 |
13 |
Monk |
Base Class |
9 |
14 |
Manyfang Dagger |
Item |
9 |
15 |
Shivering Touch |
Spell |
7 |
16 |
Void Disciple |
Prestige Class |
7 |
17 |
Tainted Scholar |
Prestige Class |
6 |
18 |
Monstrous Crab |
Monster |
5 |
19 |
Hulking Hurler mountain-tossing |
Class Feature |
5 |
20 |
Precocious Apprentice |
Feat |
5 |
21 |
Leadership |
Feat |
5 |
22 |
flat-footed |
Combat |
5 |
23 |
Adamantine Horror |
Monster |
5 |
96 additional suggestions:Spoiler
Show
# |
Name |
Type |
Votes |
24 |
CW Samurai |
Base Class |
4 |
25 |
Invisible Blade prereqs |
Class Feature |
4 |
26 |
Thought Bottle |
Item |
4 |
27 |
Balor sword |
Ability |
4 |
28 |
Trap Sense |
Class Feature |
4 |
29 |
bloodlines |
Variant Rule |
4 |
30 |
Challenge Rating |
Combat |
4 |
31 |
PrC prereq |
Rule |
4 |
32 |
Opalescent Glare |
Spell |
4 |
33 |
Abrupt Jaunt |
Alternate Class Feature |
4 |
34 |
Vow of Poverty |
Feat |
4 |
35 |
Ex/Su/SLA/Na |
Rule |
4 |
36 |
Feinting |
Combat |
3 |
37 |
Dread Necromancer's fear aura |
Class Feature |
3 |
38 |
Persistent Spell |
Feat |
3 |
39 |
Genies |
Monster |
3 |
40 |
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil |
Prestige Class |
3 |
41 |
Gate |
Spell |
3 |
42 |
Mercurial Strike |
Feat |
3 |
43 |
Mountebank |
Prestige Class |
3 |
44 |
Lucid Dreaming |
Skill |
3 |
45 |
Dragonwrought |
Feat |
3 |
46 |
Dragonblood subtype |
Rule |
3 |
47 |
Incorporeal subtype |
Rule |
3 |
48 |
Forsaker |
Prestige Class |
3 |
49 |
Prone Shooter |
Feat |
2 |
50 |
Ride-By Attack |
Feat |
2 |
51 |
dead |
Combat |
2 |
52 |
grapple |
Combat |
2 |
53 |
Level Adjustment |
Rule |
2 |
54 |
soulmelds |
Rule |
2 |
55 |
Practiced Manifester |
Feat |
2 |
56 |
LA/RHD |
Rule |
2 |
57 |
multiclass XP penalties |
Rule |
2 |
58 |
Ur-Priest |
Prestige Class |
2 |
59 |
Jump |
Skill |
2 |
60 |
Planar Bubble |
Class Feature |
2 |
61 |
Sublime Chord |
Prestige Class |
2 |
62 |
Fiery Fist |
Feat |
2 |
63 |
Favored Soul |
Base Class |
2 |
64 |
Synthesist Summoner |
Base Class |
2 |
65 |
traps |
Rule |
2 |
66 |
spell component pouch |
Item |
2 |
67 |
Contact Other Plane |
Spell |
2 |
68 |
Elemental Weird |
Monster |
2 |
69 |
Pazuzu |
Monster |
2 |
70 |
Monkey Lunge |
Feat |
1 |
71 |
Naztharune Rakshasa sneak attack |
Ability |
1 |
72 |
Antagonize |
Feat |
1 |
73 |
Fighter |
Base Class |
1 |
74 |
Divine Metamagic |
Feat |
1 |
75 |
Vorpal |
Item |
1 |
76 |
Legion of Sentinels |
Spell |
1 |
77 |
Incantatrix |
Prestige Class |
1 |
78 |
magic device traps |
Rule |
1 |
79 |
SLAs ignoring components |
Combat |
1 |
80 |
Planar Ally/Planar Binding |
Spell |
1 |
81 |
Heroes of Horror |
Book |
1 |
82 |
Healer |
Base Class |
1 |
83 |
Dvati |
Race |
1 |
84 |
Jack of All Trades |
Feat |
1 |
85 |
Forced Dream |
Power |
1 |
86 |
Haunt Shift |
Spell |
1 |
87 |
Freedom of Movement |
Spell |
1 |
88 |
swift/immediate action movement |
Class Feature/Item |
1 |
89 |
Clever Wrestling |
Feat |
1 |
90 |
Versatile Spellcaster |
Feat |
1 |
91 |
Choker extra standard action |
Ability |
1 |
92 |
Festering Hate |
Disease |
1 |
93 |
Arrow Demon |
Monster |
1 |
94 |
Damage Reduction stacking |
Rule |
1 |
95 |
Wish |
Spell |
1 |
96 |
Feral |
Template |
1 |
97 |
Diehard |
Feat |
1 |
98 |
free actions |
Combat |
1 |
99 |
Beholder Mage |
Prestige Class |
1 |
100 |
Planar Shepherd |
Prestige Class |
1 |
101 |
Apocalypse from the Sky |
Spell |
1 |
102 |
Dirge Singer |
Prestige Class |
1 |
103 |
Tracking |
Rule |
1 |
104 |
White Raven Tactics on initiator |
Maneuver |
1 |
105 |
Complete Psionic |
Book |
1 |
106 |
Mindsight |
Feat |
1 |
107 |
Monk proficiencies |
Class Feature |
1 |
108 |
Shaedling's Shadow Gossamer |
Ability |
1 |
109 |
Ebon Eyes |
Spell |
1 |
110 |
Guidance of the Avatar |
Spell |
1 |
111 |
Greater Mirror Image |
Spell |
1 |
112 |
nightsticks |
Item |
1 |
113 |
Exemplar |
Prestige Class |
1 |
114 |
Ice Assassin |
Spell |
1 |
115 |
Illumian power words |
Ability |
1 |
116 |
Erudite |
Base Class |
1 |
117 |
CPsi Mind Blade |
Feat |
1 |
118 |
Reincarnate |
Spell |
1 |
119 |
Flaws |
Variant Rule |
1 |
120 |
Locate City |
Spell |
1 |
6 proudly negated suggestions:Spoiler
Show
# |
Name |
Type |
Votes |
121 |
chicken-infested |
Flaw |
0 |
122 |
Malconvoker |
Prestige Class |
0 |
123 |
Factotum |
Base Class |
0 |
124 |
ML limit on augmentation |
Rule |
0 |
125 |
Love's Pain |
Spell |
0 |
126 |
Wizard |
Base Class |
-1 |
Votelog:Spoiler
Show
Poster |
Votes |
Total |
Acanous |
candle of invocation (1) |
1 |
allenw |
Monkey Lunge (1), Prone Shooter (1) |
2 |
Amoren |
Naztharune Rakshasa sneak attack (1), CW Samurai (1), Truenamer (1), Invisible Blade prereqs (1), Monstrous Crab (1) |
5 |
Amphetryon |
Shivering Touch (1) |
1 |
Answerer |
Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (1), Truenamer (1) |
2 |
Antonok |
Paladin code (3), dust of sneezing and choking (3), alignments (1), Feinting (3) |
10 |
Aricandor |
Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (1), Truenamer (1), candle of invocation (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Cancer Mage (1), Tainted Scholar (1), drowning (1), epic spellcasting (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) |
10 |
Arutema |
Antagonize (1) |
1 |
Ashtagon |
Fighter (1), Wizard (1), Divine Metamagic (1) |
3 |
avr |
Ride-By Attack (1), Iron Heart Surge (3), alignments (3), epic spellcasting (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (2) |
10 |
Azernak0 |
Truenamer (1) |
1 |
Batou1976 |
Truenamer (1), candle of invocation (1), Vorpal (1), alignments (-1), drowning (1) |
5 |
BCBrammer |
Void Disciple (1) |
1 |
ben-zayb |
Hulking Hurler mountain-tossing (3), Precocious Apprentice (2), Thought Bottle (2), Cancer Mage (3) |
10 |
bobthe6th |
Balor sword (3), Dread Necromancer's fear aura (3) |
6 |
BRC |
Legion of Sentinels (1) |
1 |
Cruiser1 |
Persistent Spell (3), Iron Heart Surge (1), Genies (3), Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (3) |
10 |
Curmudgeon |
Monk (2), Leadership (1), Manyfang Dagger (3), Incantatrix (1), epic spellcasting (1), Diplomacy (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) |
10 |
Devmaar |
Trap Sense (2), dust of sneezing and choking (2), Iron Heart Surge (2), dead (1), drowning (2), Shivering Touch (1) |
10 |
Doorhandle |
chicken-infested (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Monstrous Crab (1), Cancer Mage (1) |
4 |
Doug Lampert |
candle of invocation (-1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), drowning (1), grapple (1), magic device traps (1), SLAs ignoring components (1), Diplomacy (1), Gate (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), Planar Ally/Planar Binding (1) |
10 |
Doxkid |
Heroes of Horror (1) |
1 |
Dragonborn |
Healer (1), alignments (3), epic spellcasting (2), flat-footed (1), Level Adjustment (1), soulmelds (1), Shivering Touch (1) |
10 |
Draz74 |
Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (1), Monk (1), Adamantine Horror (1), epic spellcasting (1), Diplomacy (2), Gate (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), bloodlines (1), Dvati (1) |
10 |
dspeyer |
Practiced Manifester (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) |
3 |
EatAtEmrakuls |
Truenamer (3), Iron Heart Surge (3), Cancer Mage (3), drowning (1) |
10 |
eggs |
Jack of All Trades (1), Practiced Manifester (1), Forced Dream (1), Malconvoker (-1), Challenge Rating (3), Haunt Shift (1), bloodlines (2) |
10 |
Ernir |
Factotum (1), Truenamer (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), drowning (1), Freedom of Movement (1) |
5 |
Eugenides |
Diplomacy (3), Monk (3), Iron Heart Surge (2), Manyfang Dagger (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1) |
10 |
Featherman |
swift/immediate action movement (1), LA/RHD (1), multiclass XP penalties (2), PrC prereq (3), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (3) |
10 |
Gavinfoxx |
Clever Wrestling (1) |
1 |
GnomeGninjas |
Mercurial Strike (3) |
3 |
Grim Reader |
Versatile Spellcaster (1), Ur-Priest (1) |
2 |
Grytorm |
Tainted Scholar (1) |
1 |
HeadlessMermaid |
Invisible Blade prereqs (1), Trap Sense (-1), Iron Heart Surge (2), alignments (3), flat-footed (1), Diplomacy (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) |
10 |
Jade Dragon |
Mountebank (3), candle of invocation (3), Diplomacy (2), Jump (1), alignments (1) |
10 |
JaronK |
Opalescent Glare (1) |
1 |
jaybird |
Iron Heart Surge (1) |
1 |
karpik777 |
Iron Heart Surge (2), Adamantine Horror (1), Tainted Scholar (1) |
4 |
Kazyan |
Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (3), Truenamer (3), Tainted Scholar (1), epic spellcasting (3) |
10 |
Khosan |
drowning (1) |
1 |
killianh |
Planar Bubble (1) |
1 |
Kira_the_5th |
Choker extra standard action (1), Abrupt Jaunt (1), Festering Hate (1), Antagonize (-1), Cancer Mage (1), Malconvoker (1), Sublime Chord (2) |
8 |
Knaight |
Balor sword (1), Truenamer (3), Paladin code (2), Void Disciple (2), Lucid Dreaming (2) |
10 |
Ksheep |
Truenamer (1), Paladin code (1), Ride-By Attack (1), Vow of Poverty (1), Adamantine Horror (1), Arrow Demon (1), Monstrous Crab (1), Cancer Mage (1), alignments (1), drowning (1) |
10 |
Kurald Galain |
Monk (3), Precocious Apprentice (3), drowning (-1), Shivering Touch (3), ML limit on augmentation (0) |
10 |
Kuulvheysoon |
Truenamer (1), Dragonwrought (1) |
2 |
LordDrakulzen |
Paladin code (1), Vow of Poverty (2), dust of sneezing and choking (2), Manyfang Dagger (2), Damage Reduction stacking (1), Wish (1), Feral (1) |
10 |
lunar2 |
Wizard (-1), Diehard (1), Fiery Fist (2), alignments (3), Dragonblood subtype (3) |
10 |
Madara |
Truenamer (1), Trap Sense (2), dust of sneezing and choking (2), Iron Heart Surge (1), Monstrous Crab (2), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), Shivering Touch (1) |
10 |
Malimar |
Truenamer (1), Dragonwrought (1), Leadership (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), drowning (1), epic spellcasting (1), free actions (1), grapple (1), PrC prereq (1), Diplomacy (1) |
10 |
Mithril Leaf |
candle of invocation (1), Ex/Su/SLA/Na (1) |
2 |
molten_dragon |
Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (1), Truenamer (1), Persistent Spell (1), Thought Bottle (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Beholder Mage (1), Planar Shepherd (1), Tainted Scholar (1), Ur-Priest (1), LA/RHD (1) |
10 |
mootoall |
Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (3), Void Disciple (1), Apocalypse from the Sky (1) |
5 |
Morph Bark |
Truenamer (1), Hulking Hurler mountain-tossing (-1), Iron Heart Surge (-1), epic spellcasting (3), Ex/Su/SLA/Na (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (3) |
10 |
NeedsAnswersNao |
bloodlines (-1), Tainted Scholar (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Truenamer (1) |
4 |
NikitaDarkstar |
Favored Soul (1), Dirge Singer (1), Challenge Rating (1), Level Adjustment (1) |
4 |
Novawurmson |
Synthesist Summoner (1), Antagonize (1), traps (1) |
3 |
Palanan |
Tracking (1) |
1 |
Phaederkiel |
Manyfang Dagger (3), Incorporeal subtype (3), Factotum (-1), White Raven Tactics on initiator (1), Abrupt Jaunt (2) |
10 |
Psyren |
spell component pouch (1) |
1 |
QuickLyRaiNbow |
Truenamer (1), Ex/Su/SLA/Na (2), Diplomacy (1), Lucid Dreaming (1), Contact Other Plane (2), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (3) |
10 |
randomguy |
dust of sneezing and choking (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Adamantine Horror (1), Elemental Weird (1) |
4 |
Rubik |
Complete Psionic (1) |
1 |
Salbazier |
alignments (1), epic spellcasting (1), Paladin code (1) |
3 |
ShriekingDrake |
Mindsight (1) |
1 |
Sith_Happens |
Opalescent Glare (2) |
2 |
sonofzeal |
Truenamer (1), Monk proficiencies (1), candle of invocation (2), Pazuzu (2), Void Disciple (3), alignments (-1) |
10 |
sreservoir |
Shaedling's Shadow Gossamer (1) |
1 |
Stallion |
Truenamer (1) |
1 |
suddo |
bloodlines (1) |
1 |
Telok |
Ebon Eyes (1) |
1 |
Telonius |
Truenamer (1), Paladin code (2), candle of invocation (2), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), alignments (2), Guidance of the Avatar (1) |
10 |
The Dark Fiddler |
Truenamer (2), Invisible Blade prereqs (2), Trap Sense (1), chicken-infested (-1), Cancer Mage (2), drowning (2) |
10 |
TheGeckoKing |
Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (3), Truenamer (3), Heroes of Horror (1), candle of invocation (1), drowning (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) |
10 |
TheOOB |
Gate (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) |
2 |
tiercel |
Abrupt Jaunt (1), Greater Mirror Image (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (3) |
5 |
togapika |
Wizard (-1), Hulking Hurler mountain-tossing (3), dust of sneezing and choking (3), Forsaker (3) |
10 |
Togo |
flat-footed (3) |
3 |
Tr0ll |
Truenamer (-1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Thought Bottle (1), traps (1), Leadership (3), Persistent Spell (-1) |
9 |
tuggyne |
Planar Bubble (1), candle of invocation (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), nightsticks (1), spell component pouch (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Adamantine Horror (1), Elemental Weird (1), drowning (1), epic spellcasting (1), Love's Pain (0) |
10 |
Vaz |
Opalescent Glare (1), dead (1), Exemplar (1), Jump (1), CW Samurai (3) |
7 |
Vinyadan |
Ice Assassin (1) |
1 |
willpell |
Illumian power words (1), Erudite (1), Favored Soul (1), Heroes of Horror (-1), CPsi Mind Blade (1), Dragon Disciple (1), alignments (-1), soulmelds (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), bloodlines (1) |
10 |
Wonton |
Prone Shooter (1) |
1 |
Zaq |
Truenamer (1) |
1 |
Zerter |
Synthesist Summoner (1), Dragonwrought (1), Vow of Poverty (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Cancer Mage (1), epic spellcasting (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), Reincarnate (1), Flaws (1) |
9 |
Zonasiy |
Locate City (1) |
1 |
Statistics:Spoiler
Show
Type |
Suggestions |
Votes |
Rule |
15 |
58 |
Spell |
18 |
54 |
Item |
7 |
50 |
Base Class |
10 |
50 |
Prestige Class |
14 |
44 |
Feat |
19 |
40 |
Combat |
8 |
31 |
Class Feature |
7 |
29 |
Maneuver |
2 |
26 |
Ability |
6 |
21 |
Monster |
6 |
18 |
Skill |
3 |
17 |
Variant Rule |
2 |
5 |
Book |
2 |
2 |
Template |
1 |
1 |
Disease |
1 |
1 |
Power |
1 |
1 |
Class Feature/Item |
1 |
1 |
Race |
1 |
1 |
Flaw |
1 |
0 |
1
Dust of Sneezing and Choking: A serious status condition inflicted for an absurd duration, no save, no SR, by a cheap cursed item.
Chicken-Infested: Probably one of the wondrous deeds of writing that earned Dragon Magazine its remarkably dubious reputation for balance. This is a flaw that acts more like a cheesily-written spell, and has about the same level of common sense. (I.e., none.)
I'm putting one vote for each of these, er, fine vintages.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Wouldn't the whole list just be filled with polymorph and other effects that are based off of poly morph(okay and a slot for gate).
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Nope. Needs room for iron heart surge.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheOOB
Wouldn't the whole list just be filled with polymorph and other effects that are based off of poly morph(okay and a slot for gate).
Well, I guess we'll see, won't we? Honestly, there's some pretty crazy broken stuff out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doorhandle
Nope. Needs room for iron heart surge.
That it does! Added, and one vote counted for you and me.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Drowning rules? I feel like drowning rules qualify.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
If we're allowing Pathfinder material here, how about Antagonize? Mind-control your enemies with a laughably easy skill check as a standard action at-will.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Any of the feats which don't do anything by RAW; Ride-by attack is the only one I remember.
Iron Heart Surge deserves first place & the polymorph line second, but those feats should come in down the list.
I suggest the polymorph line should take up only one place BTW.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I second all of truenamer. Then add a vote for the feat entry requirements for Invisible Blade (really?), and then finally add a vote for all of CW Samurai.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I'm really wanting to say Candle Of Invocation as the default response, but I think the Ex vs Su vs SLA rules have to take the cake just for how common they are. It says everything is one of those let fails to specify many abilities. Leads to many of the problems with Polymorph in general.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Divine metamagic in general.
Either fighter or wizard, depending on where on the tier ranking you like to play.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
avr
Any of the feats which don't do anything by RAW; Ride-by attack is the only one I remember.
It's not a feat, but you could include Trap Sense, the thing that gives you a dodge bonus to AC versus traps, which are usually hitting you while you're flat-footed and thus don't get a dodge bonus.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
No one has said the planar bubble from planar shepherd yet? its bad writing is what allowed that whole 10:1 time flow thing to happen
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Anything that allows you to become a Genie and grant yourself Wishes probably qualifies too.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I don't see what's so bad about Chicken Infested. It's meant to be silly, and it is.
What's the name again of that third-level spell that drops an enemy's dexterity by 3d6? Surely, one-shotting dragons at level 5 is well written :smallamused:
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
You would be horrified by what can be done by having an nigh-infinite supply of warm, breathing chickens to feed into your spells, particularly as you can take out what amounts to an infinite supply instantly, (free action to draw an item, free actions can be done by RAW an infinite number of times in one turn...)
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kurald Galain
I don't see what's so bad about Chicken Infested. It's meant to be silly, and it is.
What's the name again of that third-level spell that drops an enemy's dexterity by 3d6? Surely, one-shotting dragons at level 5 is well written :smallamused:
pssst don't tell my DM.
I just got this spell at lvl 5 and I'm in search of large beasties.:smallbiggrin:
He says: You know they are CR:X Right?
:smalltongue:
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Well, there's Precocious Apprentice, which up until now was a topic of debate for early PrC entry. Some say it contradicts itself and is really poorly worded.
Also, what about the Dead condition as being poorly defined too?
Another one: damage based on weight(wth) and carrying capacity exppnentially strength-dependent, which leads to hulking hurlers literally throwing the whole ground/mountain/planet.
Lastly, just ranting on Setting Sun's Hydra Slaying Strike, although it's more of false advertising than borkenness.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
18 suggestions! It's a deluge! :smalleek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Khosan
Drowning rules? I feel like drowning rules qualify.
Right you are, and in they go!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arutema
If we're allowing Pathfinder material here, how about
Antagonize? Mind-control your enemies with a laughably easy skill check as a standard action at-will.
Ehh, why not. It's in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stallion
Needs moar truenamer.
Fair enough, although I'd prefer a tighter entry (IMO, not all of truenamer is ill-written, just one of the lexicons, one or both of the Laws, the check scaling.... :smallsigh:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
avr
Any of the feats which don't do anything by RAW; Ride-by attack is the only one I remember.
Iron Heart Surge deserves first place & the polymorph line second, but those feats should come in down the list.
I suggest the polymorph line should take up only one place BTW.
All of these are in. Note: I interpreted your priorities as indicating max votes (3) for IHS and increased votes (2) for the polymorph line. If that's incorrect, please let me know; I don't want to resort to judgment calls much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amoren
I second all of truenamer. Then add a vote for the feat entry requirements for Invisible Blade (really?), and then finally add a vote for all of CW Samurai.
Another "entire class" entry, I see. Any possibility of cutting that down? :smallwink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mithril Leaf
I'm really wanting to say Candle Of Invocation as the default response, but I think the Ex vs Su vs SLA rules have to take the cake just for how common they are. It says everything is one of those let fails to specify many abilities. Leads to many of the problems with Polymorph in general.
Both are added.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ashtagon
Divine metamagic in general.
Either fighter or wizard, depending on where on the tier ranking you like to play.
From my perspective, neither Fighter nor Wizard are exactly badly written in isolation; their imbalance comes from the nature of feats vs. spells. But, you know, it's a matter of perspective I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
willpell
It's not a feat, but you could include Trap Sense, the thing that gives you a dodge bonus to AC versus traps, which are usually hitting you while you're flat-footed and thus don't get a dodge bonus.
Ah, I remember that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killianh
No one has said the planar bubble from planar shepherd yet? its bad writing is what allowed that whole 10:1 time flow thing to happen
Hey, the thread's only been going for a few hours! :smalltongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
willpell
Anything that allows you to become a Genie and grant yourself Wishes probably qualifies too.
Yes, but more specifically? :smallwink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kurald Galain
What's the name again of that third-level spell that drops an enemy's dexterity by 3d6? Surely, one-shotting dragons at level 5 is well written :smallamused:
Shivering touch. In it goes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doorhandle
You would be horrified by what can be done by having an nigh-infinite supply of warm, breathing chickens to feed into your spells, particularly as you can take out what amounts to an infinite supply instantly, (free action to draw an item, free actions can be done by RAW an infinite number of times in one turn...)
Is this an official vote for the wretchedness of Chicken-Infested?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ben-zayb
Well, there's Precocious Apprentice, which up until now was a topic of debate for early PrC entry. Some say it contradicts itself and is really poorly worded.
Also, what about the Dead condition as being poorly defined too?
Another one: damage based on weight(wth) and carrying capacity exppnentially strength-dependent, which leads to hulking hurlers literally throwing the whole ground/mountain/planet.
Lastly, just ranting on Setting Sun's Hydra Slaying Strike, although it's more of false advertising than borkenness.
I don't know about the last personally, but the others are familiar to me.
I'm amused to see a ton of suggestions but not much agreement yet; no one has even come close to using up their 10 votes, and only one person has felt strongly enough to put 3 on one. :smallamused: Anyway, I've updated the list, so on we go!
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Oh yeah, there's the cancer mage, I think it's called? Normally corruption is a detrimental mechanic, but this guy doesn't really suffer from the side effects, and gets a ludicrous boost to its spell DC.
There's also beholder mage, which can actually be entered (somehow) via polymorph spells.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I'd add another vote for a monster, if that's allowed.
THE MONSTROUS CRAB!
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amoren
Are you sure this is the correct link? :smallconfused: Furaffinity doesn't have anything to do with DnD, AFAIK, and sometimes is NSFW.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
No one mentioned Adamantine Horror (this was the one with the absurd at-wills, right?) yet? Also, Tainted Scholar - perhaps not in itself, but combine it with being undead...
Though IHS still takes the cake.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I saw this thread, and the first thing that popped to my mind was Candle of Invocation.
Unlike other poorly written things that exist in 3.5, Candle of invocation is worded precisely. It explicitly details what it does, although it hides the truly broken part after an end-of-page break.
Things like Iron Heart Surge or Drowning, there's obviously a hole. Something the DM needs to Rule Zero in. They are BADLY written. One line of text would fix either one.
Candle of Invocation? Oh no. The writers knew EXACTLY what they were doing. The CoI is a piece of Dev Malice against all DMs, a piece of aged cheddar that doesn't hide what it does, it just puts it after a wall of text to make lazy or inexperienced DMs think it's OK.
Munchkins cackle out loud at gaming tables when the oft-asked question of "Can I buy this?" is answered by a "Yes" from the DM after cursory examination.
The Dust of Sneezing and Choking compares, but is not nearly as game-breaking. Sure, your lv 5 party can take out a Great Wyrm Black Dragon with it, but you have to actually find the dragon. CoI? You gate in something with Wish SLI, then wish for some dust of sneezing, then wish to be transported to the nearest safe location within throwing distance of a Great Wyrm black dragon.
It's not just cheese, it's the entire omelette, besides.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
One more vote on an existing suggestion and we could ensure that all the top ten have at least two votes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kurald Galain
Oh yeah, there's the cancer mage, I think it's called? Normally corruption is a detrimental mechanic, but this guy doesn't really suffer from the side effects, and gets a ludicrous boost to its spell DC.
There's also beholder mage, which can actually be entered (somehow) via polymorph spells.
Two more to add!
I might actually put the ridiculous duration clauses in PaO in separately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amoren
Sure, why not? ... although that's not the official link by any means.
Anything in 3.x that's just stupidly broken is fair game. Make sure to vote for some others, though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
karpik777
No one mentioned Adamantine Horror (this was the one with the absurd at-wills, right?) yet? Also, Tainted Scholar - perhaps not in itself, but combine it with being undead...
Though IHS still takes the cake.
Yeah, adamantine horror is the one with multiple at-will 9ths. At CR 9.
Is that two votes for IHS, or three, or just one? (I'm assuming two for now.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Acanous
I saw this thread, and the first thing that popped to my mind was Candle of Invocation.
Unlike other poorly written things that exist in 3.5, Candle of invocation is worded precisely. It explicitly details what it does, although it hides the truly broken part after an end-of-page break.
Things like Iron Heart Surge or Drowning, there's obviously a hole. Something the DM needs to Rule Zero in. They are BADLY written. One line of text would fix either one.
Candle of Invocation? Oh no. The writers knew EXACTLY what they were doing. The CoI is a piece of Dev Malice against all DMs, a piece of aged cheddar that doesn't hide what it does, it just puts it after a wall of text to make lazy or inexperienced DMs think it's OK.
Munchkins cackle out loud at gaming tables when the oft-asked question of "Can I buy this?" is answered by a "Yes" from the DM after cursory examination.
The Dust of Sneezing and Choking compares, but is not nearly as game-breaking. Sure, your lv 5 party can take out a Great Wyrm Black Dragon with it, but you have to actually find the dragon. CoI? You gate in something with Wish SLI, then wish for some dust of sneezing, then wish to be transported to the nearest safe location within throwing distance of a Great Wyrm black dragon.
It's not just cheese, it's the entire omelette, besides.
An eloquent and well-reasoned condemnation.
However, it unfortunately lacks a specific vote, so I'll assume one for CoI for now.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aharon
Are you sure this is the correct link? :smallconfused: Furaffinity doesn't have anything to do with DnD, AFAIK, and sometimes is NSFW.
That's the second time this computer has bit me in the ass with copy/pasting. ~_~
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Scratch Cancer Mage, I actually meant Tainted Scholar. Also, scratch Beholder Mage; the problem with that lies in the polymorph line.
Here are two new ones. Persist Spell, and Nightsticks. I don't think DMM is the problem per se; numerous feats and features simply assume that Turn Undead is a strictly limited resource. And it normally is, except if you buy cheap, cheap nightsticks to blast your limit through the roof. Persist Spell makes spells last way longer than they should, and goes a long way towards wrecking the spell resource system.
And, if you're going to put entire classes on the list, you should at least put the Druid and Monk there. The Druid is a full caster, and has innate polymorph ability, and comes with a free beatstick that tends to be better than the party fighter, so it is three classes wrapped in one. Broken straight from level one, which wizards markedly are not.
And the Monk. Need I really say more? We've had so many threads about the class that at some point we were suggesting a subforum to drop the monk threads in. We've had whole guides dedicated to explaining exactly how sucky the monk is. It deserves to be near the top, because it's a class that wildly fails to live up to its promise, and a common trap for newbies.
Okay, my vote for the Polymorph Line (and just put PAO under there, it's the same thing); Candle of Inv; Tainted Scholar; Shivering Touch; the Su/Ex/SLA rule; Prec Apprentice; Persist Spell; Nightstick; the monk; and the monk again.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Yeah, that earlier post was a vote for chicken infested.
Also, th' accursed crab.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kurald Galain
Scratch Cancer Mage, I actually meant Tainted Scholar.
Nope, cancer-mage +festering anger is still broken. 2+ strength per day = approx. 718 strength after one year.
Also, could you use a candle of invocation to summon a lawful-good Balor? seems legit.
I don't think Shivering Touch is broken: Just that it needs to be much higher in level. There are other-ways to oneshot a dragon, (save-or-dies) and it needs to be in line with those.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doorhandle
Yeah, that earlier post was a vote for chicken infested.
Also, th' accursed crab.
Nope, cancer-mage +festering anger is still broken. 2+ strength per day = approx. 718 strength after one year.
Also, could you use a candle of invocation to summon a lawful-good Balor? seems legit.
I don't think Shivering Touch is broken: Just that it needs to be much higher in level. There are other-ways to oneshot a dragon, (save-or-dies) and it needs to be in line with those.
Bonus points for cancer mage if you use the human varient with the sigil that gives you strength to determine bonus spells, whose name eludes me at the moment.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doorhandle
I don't think Shivering Touch is broken: Just that it needs to be much higher in level.
That makes it badly written by default, yes?
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Truenaming (2), Drowning (2), Trap Sense (1), Cancer Mage (2), Invisible Blade Prerequisites (2). Can I give a negative vote to chicken infested? I don't think something made as an April Fool's joke deserves to be judged alongside materials published to actually be used.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Hm, perhaps this would work better if everybody could vote yes/no/neutral on each entry (instead of spreading 10 positive votes and 0 negatives around somehow). That would give a more balanced picture of what people actually consider broken. $.02
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Are we talking about bad design, or about poor wording in explaining how things work?
Because many of the most infamously broken things don't seem too bad to me, when you read the description slightly differently.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Hmmm, on the subject of poorly written... Unlike the crab which was poorly designed/thought out, or the invisible blade, which was poorly split from the Master Thrower, I'd call out the errata for the naztharune rakshasa. While better than the base (which meant that naztharune would only have 1d6 sneak attack until they took levels of rogue) it was instead changed to them getting the sneak attack of a rogue of their total hit dice.
So, class levels taken afterwards will continue to grant sneak attack. Go rogue/assassin and gain double the sneak attack progression! Or, better yet, Daring Outlaw Swashbuckler for, yet again, double sneak attack progression.
Still one of my favorite monsters though, that and the marrulurk. Definately want to play a rogue using one of those some day.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Truenamer, no doubt.
Myself I actually don't think Iron Heart Surge is that badly written, but oh well.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
One for bad design and one for bad wording:
Bad design: Ur-Priest.
That one really do make me wonder if the designers ever played D&D. Easy entry, and 9th level spells in 9 levels. With its own spell-progression table. I mean, what? And its not just that, but it was reprinted in Complete Divine! "We've had a long time to see just how broken this thing is, so lets reprint it"
Its not just bad design, its, well it is not having played the game at all.
Bad wording: Versatile Spellcaster.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I think Apocalypse from the Sky needs at least an honorable mention, for allowing for infinite, free major artifacts in one's spell component pouch.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Truenamer. Not for the DCs, but for the Law of Sequences, the 5 round duration, the laughably short range, and the single-target restriction.
Candle of Invocation. Nuff Said.
Pazuzu Pazuzu Pazuzu.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
The tracking rules. They manage to bear no relation to actual tracking, as well as lending themselves so, so willingly to plot abuse or outright irrelevance.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Here are my votes (along with a couple new suggestions).
2 votes - Description of Alignments (Rule). The paragraphs that launched ten thousand threads.
2 votes - Paladin's Code (Class feature/Rule?). Maybe a subset of Alignment description, but I suspect this particular rule has caused more in-group conflict than any single rule in the book. Anything that forces other people in the group to play their characters in a certain way is just asking for OOC difficulties. Some of the Vows in BoED are guilty of this too, but at least they come with a big warning label. (If you're using BoED at all, you know what you're getting into).
2 votes - Candle of Invocation. Acanous said pretty much all that's to be said about it.
1 vote - Dust of Sneezing and Choking (Item). Hey, an "I win" button for 2400gp!
1 vote - Truenamer mechanics (Class). Just all-around bad.
1 vote - Iron Heart Surge (Maneuver). They really need to be a bit more specific.
1 vote - Guidance of the Avatar (Spell). Just poorly thought-out. If it exists at all, it should be a much higher level.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Another vote for Shivering Touch.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
What, no Prone Shooter or Monkey Lunge? They have my vote.
(For the non-Pathfinder people: Prone Shooter allows you to ignore the (non-existent) penalties for shooting a crossbow or firearm while prone. Monkey Lunge lets you neutralize the -2 AC from the Lunge feat (which gives you reach) until the end of your turn as a standard action; which leaves you no way to actually attack that turn, since you just used your standard action. And Lunge only lasts until the end of your turn, so it's not like you could at least still make AoOs with reach with no AC penalty.)
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Right,
Iron Heart Surge (2 votes)
Trap Sense (2 votes)
Drowning (2 votes)
Dust of Sneezing & Choking (2 votes)
Death (1 vote)
Shivering Touch (1 vote)
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Are we allowed to include monsters in this? Because the CR of clockwork horrors and Elemental Weirds should definitely be up here.
I'm putting a vote on that Blizzard spell from frostburn that has an area that's greater than it's range.
And 1 vote for Iron Heart Surge, and 1 for Dust of Sneezing and choking.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
While the entire polymorph line has both confusion and overpower issues, Polymorph Any Object really stands above the rest. I honestly don't know which uses of it are appropriate and which are abuse.
I'll also mention Practiced Manifester, which does not affect your "powers per day" (is there any class with a powers per day limit?) but doesn't say if it affects your points from a high ability score.
And yet another vote for Iron Heart Surge.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I don't suppose Spell to Power counts?
Also, another vote for Iron Heart Surge.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I don't really get what you want us to vote on here. Is it supposed to be stuff that's the most badly designed? Or stuff that's horribly overpowered? Or stuff that simply isn't explained well?
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Forced Dream - Ambiguously written, horribly conceived, poorly executed. How could this possibly be a good idea?
Haunt Shift - Nightmarishly complex, poorly written, breakable like crazy.
Practiced Manifester - Ugly copy/paste job that doesn't make sense in its system, leaves ambiguity in execution.
Jack of All Trades - The writer doesn't know how skill ranks work.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
shaedling. shadow gossamer. note the restrictions.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
"Yo, IHS. I'm really happy for you, Imma let you finish but Truenamer had one of the worst things of all time. One of the worst things of all time!"
Yeah, Truenamer.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I'd have to go with Ex/Su/SLA abilities, Natural abilities and the interaction between the RC and the MM.
Also the DWK, which isn't on your lists. Those are the two most contentious things I can think of, so they're the worst as far as being badly written and opaque.
Otherwise, as far as power, I'd go with Candle of Invocation and the Delay Death->Drowning trick.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
I know this is a 3.x thread, so I don't expect this to count as an official vote, but I'm personally a fan of Prone Shooter from Pathfinder.
It allows you to ignore the penalties for firing a crossbow or firearm while prone... ignoring the fact that there are no penalties for firing a crossbow or firearm while prone. :smallannoyed:
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dspeyer
I'll also mention Practiced Manifester, which does not affect your "powers per day" (is there any class with a powers per day limit?) but doesn't say if it affects your points from a high ability score.
Erudites get unique powers per day. But they're still powers per day.
Also, the vast majority of Complete Psionic. There're like 10 usable things in the whole book. The rest are broken, worthless, or duplications of things that should've been condensed (such as a feat that says "Choose a weapon; you can now turn your mind blade into it;" could've saved a good six pages that way).
And then there are the senseless nerfs. Damn you CPsi!
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Oh, the Lucid Dreaming skill. Oh my god it's so ridiculously ridiculous.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
The first ten that come to mind:
- Leadership (feat)
- Iron Heart Surge (maneuver)
- Drowning (rule)
- Truenamer (class)
- Whether or not you lose the features of a prestige class if lose its prereqs (rule)
- Dragonwrought (feat)
- Diplomacy (skill)
- Grapple (rule)
- Epic spellcasting (rule)
- Free actions (rule)
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Another vote for Leadership. Actually anything which works differently for PCs and NPCs fits into that category, including Diplomacy.
Metamagic shenanigans are inherently destabilizing/overpowering (i.e., they'll wreck your game), so I think Incantatrix (free metamagic!) should be on the list.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Void Disciple is a very poorly-written prestige class from Complete Divine. The worst part about the Void Disciple is his trademark ability, Voidsense. There are no specific rules on its use, for example, no duration is listed. This class can really wreck a campaign due to the ambiguity of its abilities, which are basically tools for scrying with no risk and no chance of resistance or failure.
This is just plain poorly written, not really mechanically broken, but I think this qualifies more than any of the top ten currently listed, as they are merely extremely powerful, but not necessarily wholly worst-written.
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
Clever Wrestling!
It looks pretty cut and dry to me. What makes a bonus based on the enemies size weird?
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Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tvtyrant
It looks pretty cut and dry to me. What makes a bonus based on the enemies size weird?
Cause if you get bigger than medium, it turns off, and invalidates Reaping Mauler if you took that class, turning off the entire class. And you want to get bigger than medium to grapple...
Basically, it should say: "Clever wrestling. Requires: Improved Grapple or Improved Grab. When grappling larger creatures, you get a bonus to your grapple check or escape artist check for escaping a grapple or pin. The bonus is +2 for each size category the creature is bigger than you."