General WoD Discussion #1: Assemble

[CN the Logos]

Or cause, y'know, they're incredibly jealous of their secrets and don't actually give two pints about other non-Ordo vampires or mortals? Plus, there's no such thing as a 'vampire government'. Treating the WoD like a D&D setting that must inevitably end in Tippyverse will only lead to pain, as will any approach where you consider the rules to be in-game laws that the in-game population will exploit if at all possible.

...You know, I hate the Tippyverse, and I hate the sort of bizarre twisting of RAI that makes it a thing. This is not a case of the Tippyverse. This is a case of the supposedly logical, "scientific" faction of the game inexplicably refusing to release information that could keep their entire species, themselves included, from being exterminated. It's not high level knowledge. It doesn't give other vampires any power over them. It might lead to a higher proportion of elder vampires eight hundred years down the road, but that isn't going to matter, because the Masquerade isn't going to hold that long. The more vampires who know the first two tiers of the Coil of Blood, the less likely some idiot is to blow the Masquerade on accident, and the less likely humanity is to start a pogrom against all vampires once it ends (as it inevitably will, because we have cameras everywhere now).

It's not about being altruistic towards one's fellow vampires. It's just common sense; the hunter who killed the stupid neonate who gorged herself on the hunter's sister will come for the Ordo members eventually, and he's probably bringing friends. Friends that can walk around during daylight and set vampires on fire while they sleep. If only there was some way they could have taught that new vampire to control her hunger (detailed on page 149 of the Vampire: the Requiem corebook), this wouldn't have happened.

Also, what do you call a system in which all members of a society must submit themselves to a higher authority that has the power to punish infractions (with capital punishment if need be) against a code of law or reward exemplary service, maintains a police force for that purpose, assigns specific members of the society places within it, and declares certain places demilitarized zones? That's a government, I'd say. A dysfunctional one, to be certain, I'm not arguing that. But it governs.

The logic isn't just that they aren't worthy, but the taint means you are inherently disinclined to like them period, and they may stab you in the back latter anyway, so why help them.

The idea of vampires forming a cross promotional government is contrary to thier goals (ie being more and more powerful)

the court exists becuse the prince is powerful and HE benifits from it. Nobody else matters. Everything vampires do is founded in selfish wants, needs, and disires.

That is entirely irrelevant to what I'm saying. Vampires in V:tR are described as having a number of emotional issues, but none of those problems are actually described as being worse (for the average non-draugr vampire) than a moderate to severe case of antisocial personality disorder is in real life. Most sociopaths understand that helping others is a net gain when doing so protects one's own interests, and most sociopaths are interested in remaining alive (an interest they share with most vampires). The local Prince doesn't need to care about anyone else to realize that when vampires need less blood, and that blood can come from animals rather than people, there is a significantly smaller chance that he will be killed in his sleep at some point.