GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Watchmaker

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Just a goof. I was trying to fix Bab, not will.

I figured I'd mention it. It's a minor table issue, but it is there.

The idea is that since they have been around a few times they really should be able to hold their own in a fight.

Fair enough. I like it, but as most official PrCs just leave that section blank, I still just find it "odd."

To be honest with you, in my mind diplomacy was the key skill for stopping people messing with time. Bluff doesn't seem to fit. I suppose I could add "Diplomacy or bluff, whichever is higher".

Diplomacy does fit. I could see other social skills like bluff or sense motive coming into play, too, though.

Maybe I should have it give everything back and replace the other two with something more useful?

Maybe? As it is, the class does a decent job of giving "old" characters back some of the things they lost. It could be terribly slow from a level-up and gaming perspective, but I do like it. My main issue is that, looking at it from a rogue-base, the gains per loses feel "off." It's more to do with Venerable age slapping your physicals by -6 and only returning +3 to your mental stats.

As it stands, the Fighting styles give back some of the strength (mostly) while the constitution and dexterity regaining abilities are already fairly low in so far as levels go. I very much like the idea of what it all does, executing it is debating between having to wait several levels or session versus having an early level dip and coming away with "free" mental stat bonuses. Balancing that is difficult, especially if you're not sure what else you can give the class for those later levels.

It does say it stacks.

Must have missed it. My bad.

Also, shaken, not shakened.

Whoops. Good catch.

This was really intended as a general PrC, to allow older characters to continue in the fray. Other abilities will be added to replace IH and YS.

I like that. Lazier design is to make a casting class, but I liked what you did you your PrC. It feels very much like what some cantankerous old man would be like, if he decided to become an adventurer during a mid-life crisis.

I don't know, I mean, if you didn't have a mind, then you wouldn't know what you are doing.

It makes sense, I understand that. My main issue with is is that because "mind-affecting" is such a broad tag, it often leads to weird monster types or abilities giving immunity to things that they really shouldn't or vice versa. As it's of a low uses/day, making sure you can almost always use it helps. Having it work on everything from the start is kind of silly, yes, but I like abilities that get "upgrades" from other class features.

That's a good idea, actually.

It seemed to "fit," as it is not a true "fear effect" but more an ability that "withers" them, in so far as the flavor of it goes.

Stillsword response

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I believe that absolutely no PrC is worth wasting a feat. You do get only 7 after all. I'll probably just remove that and pump up the BaB.

I mentioned endurance, simply because it fits the same sort of "naturally tough as nails" angle an above average constitution score would, except without weirdness-issues where if someone poisoned you, all of your abilities suddenly turned-off.

Fits the flavor, and more than that. A Stillsword most likely didn't advance primarily in a full BaB class, or if he did, he lost a lot of skill points because the requirements are rather cross-class. So it's a nice bump to give him martial proficiencies for the effort.

Fair enough. I just always find it "odd." I like seeing new proficiencies, it's just that a lot of the time the impact is minor, either due to the "standard" entry being fighter X or really any base class that gives full simple and martial weapons.

Actually, the system is pretty simple, though I admit I wrote it in a quite clunky fashion. It should be much clearer now.

Reading it was clunky. As 3.5 deals heavily in either squares or cubes of a certain distance (usually 5 ft. to a side), it's just easier to reference what's already there.

Mkay, I'll take those one at a time.

1. The POINT of this class is to be used in conjunction with readied attacks and teamwork strategies. It's supposed to work like that.
2. Meh, maybe you are right. Squares are indeed easier to deal with (it will also make the class much stronger if you think about it). Except I'll use cubes, not squares.
3. They can't do anything. Least is pretty explicit about that (and Time Stop doesn't work the same way as my ability).
4. Anything that deals damage normally (i.e. to stuff like walls or wooden benches) damages the membrane the exact same way. Treat it like a real material.

The new wording makes much more sense. Seeing your intent helps, and having the ability be used creatively, such as in saving a dying ally is very nice.

And that stops it from being abusable. An opponent loses a round anyway being stuck in the space, and ANOTHER one loses a round breaking it, if that is what he wants. Now, I will naturally increase the hp gain since when using cubes they can't increase every time, but using averages would just make the game too predictable for me. Personal choice.

The recharge time does help it from being truly spam-able, but the random HP can become annoying, especially with poor labeling. Using static HP makes it easier to predict, yes, but when you consider that it even just has Hardness, well, that could be enough, especially considering how objects take reduced damage from non-sonic attacks.

It's finished. I don't see what you're not seeing . Missed the spoiler? Either way, yeah, forgot to explain the counterfluxes.

That's a hold-over from my first read through. My apologies.

Looking at the permeabilities, the reflex save for flying and falling creatures is clunky, considering the default is just to have flying creatures have their wings "lock" and glide or float, in the cases of magically flying monsters like beholders.

I see no reason why "Allow Swipes" to be just restricted to slashing damage. If it's a flavor thing, why not allow for piercing and "kinetic bombardment (read, bludgeoning damage).

Incarceration needs some clean-up on the wording. I know it does something to [teleport] effects, but I can't parse what exactly.

Cesation of Existence should say if things inside come back.

Not all classes are for everyone, and for this PrC in particular the fluff is pretty precise. If Stillswords could be hasted, then good clerics should be able to command undead. It's the same thing really.

I just personally dislike abilities suddenly stopping previous strategies from working. With your cleric example, it's always an either-or-type of deal. It's a design choice, yes, but "losing" haste just bugs me.

You can use it instead of normally attacking in melee, it basically is a normal at will melee attack (which means you can also replace Full Attack hits with Flashstrikes). And you are not forced to use it, so if you use a scythe and double your threat range with feats, you will obviously never Flashstrike. And denying dex is not that weak, considering most foes do NOT wear armor, and therefore make full use of their dex mod.

Denying dexterity is useful for setting up other forms of attack, such as Sudden Strikes and Sneak Attack, more so if they benefit the whole party. The issue here is Standard Action attack versus Full-attack. Denying Dexterity could be useful, say, against a light armored opponent, but you could still be housing yourself by doing one attack versus whatever your full-attack gives instead.

My main issue is that the "no crit" bit feels unnecessary. There are other (Su)-based attacks. They do weird things, but they all allow for critical hits to happen. By the time this ability comes online, you've also already got a minimum of three attacks per round on a full-attack. Is it nice to have for when you only have a standard action? Yes, but it's unfortunate that it has more drawbacks than benefits.

1. I fail to see how letting some teammates avoid the negatives fits the flavor of the ability at all.
2. All targets within the ripple have concealment. This concealment is universal, they have it against everyone, not just those in the ripple. So yeah, if you're outside the Ripple zone and try to hit/shoot someone inside, you have to roll percentage dice to see if you hit. Also, targets within the Ripple can strike targets outside the Ripple normally (just as having Blur on you doesn't make you worse at attacking).
3. I really don't know what magic you're talking about :)).

1. You're a time wizard who may or may not have allies. Having conflicting abilities on PCs can be annoying, either because the two players are doing the same thing or because one's shtick hurts the others.

2. Mention this in the rules text then! Examples are good for that. Say if it follows the Stillsword in question or if he drops it and it "sticks" to the ground.

3a. It's a Supernatural ability. Thus, I assume it takes a standard action to activate (or is "always on"), and this leads to issues with how long it lasts and how many uses/day I have. It's fine for it to be "As a standard action, for Stillsword level rounds at a time, usable at will." I just want to know.

3b.I'm using "magic" as a catch all term here to ask about what happens if an enemy (or ally) using some random spell to do something. Generally, it's as simply as going "Wish, Miracle, and other (your choice, as the designer) 9th level and stronger spells are able to bypass this effect." Sometimes a lowly Dispel Magic can overcome the effect. Things like that.

Dispelling and making it inactive for 10 minutes are largely different notions (especially since it does. not. stack). But fine, once per round added.

One person can have more than one magical item on them. Going "nova" and turning off all of their stuff in one round is poor design. Free actions (without constraints) can do that. Yeah, I understand not wanting it to be a swift action, but part of the point of swift actions is to prevent "I do these 17 different things, all of them are free actions!"

Also, for a fight, the difference between 10 minutes and forever can be the same thing: after all, being dead means not being able to use whatever it is got shut off. Having it function without a check also means it "just happens" with no chance to save against it or stop it. The standard is for most of these types of "dispels" to be as a caster level check, as if you were using some variety of Dispel Magic. If nothing else, it prevents weird cases were a plucky ~10th level character turns off the world-ending "epic" level artifact twice his cast level. Not saying treating it like Dispel Magic won't stop that from happening, just that it would make it less common.

It makes perfect sense to me for a Stillsword master to be able to just negate everything lower Stillswords do with a mere thought, their abilities relying on will and all. Plus, at this point he's about level 18 or so minimum, and this is definitely not overpowered for that level.

Thanks a lot for everything! Will PEACH yours when I have time.

Eh, it doesn't sit well with me. I'd like it if it at least had some sort of opposed level check or the like happen, rather than just be a "Nope, I'm better than you, so I freely turn off all of your stuff!" Or the rather anticlimactic battle between two Stillswords where both spend a swift action creating stillspace before the other says "Nope."