Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

[sgtpimenta]

Yet when Roy uses Thog to weaken the structural supports the collapse doesn't happen for five panels.

Rich said it himself, OOTS moves at the speed of plot, if something will look better being in a separate panel, it will be shown in a different panel. While it is rarely the case that action is more comprehendable spread out, it is still an option, and one Rich has used in the past.

Surely the passage of time flows differently in different panels in a comic, and OotS is no different. Some times, each panel shows long speeches or complete dialogues; other shows a single line (dramatic ones, most of the time). But when showing a combat, each panel often shows a single action or a single round - as well as its immediate result. That's the key word here.
I'm no expert in Architecture and Engeneering, but the demolition of the arena is not not immediate results of Roy's actions. And, even if it was, this scene is more a exception to the point I was trying to make than a good example. If I have to guess, the delayed demolition of the arena serves mainly to create tension, as a form of highlighting the consequences of the previously shown actions. In the other scene, however, Roy is attacking Thog with increasing anger - hence the last attack having both bigger consequence and sound effect.

However, to answer his other points:
-The fact that levels mean nothing in the arena fights works against your position, because all your evidence that Roy is high level comes from the arena fights. In the fight against Thog, it's because Thog's level is tied to Roy's, so it doesn't matter what level Roy is, the fight against Thog would be equally difficult at any level. In the fight against Belkar, it's because Roy's ability to deal damage in one attack is not at all closely tied to his levels once he has a core feat build; the poor scaling of feats is one of the MAIN reasons Fighter is considered a weak class.In the fight against Belkar, it's because Roy's ability to deal damage in one attack is not at all closely tied to his levels once he has a core feat build; the poor scaling of feats is one of the MAIN reasons Fighter is considered a weak class.

How do we know that Thog's level is tied to Roy's? Roy pretty much says that's not the case, so I don't think we could use the personal rival rule.

The thing is: Roy is the most all-around competent character in the Order. I find it hard to believe that one low level Fighter could be more competent than other high level classes. And we have seem lots of sittuations in which this rule seems to apply. The arena fights are more important to the actual thread 'cause they are post-resurrection.

He was able to rescue the party all by himself, and solo Miko. He handled both bounty hunters (who have, themselves, defeated half the party) in the bar fight, and was selected as a better warrior than the half-dragon. Let's not forget that he jumped to face Xykon all by himself - being a non-cliche, not-stupid fighter, I figure that he had reasons to believe that he could actually succeed. He was later proven wrong, obviously, but we know him to be competent fighter and a brilliant tactician: implying that Roy tried to deal with Xykon without even the slightest chance of success would be contradictory with which we know about him.

-Most indications are that Roy does not gain XP in the afterlife, and the only point that COULD hint otherwise is an ambiguous comment about having a cool idea for a sword move that he has to try out later. That all but shows he doesn't actually have the feat as yet; it CERTAINLY isn't good evidence that he gained XP in the afterlife and picked up the feat immediately upon rezzing. As a final note, Roy didn't spend a single moment in any of the places pointed out by Roy's Archon, as far as we know.

That may be, but I was just pointing out how he could have access to XP. And don't forget about his completed quests and character growth mojo.

But I'm not really all that comfortable trying to justify his XP. We don't know how the whole post-death thing actually works in OotS -it seems to me that it is quite different than 3.5 Rules As Written, but then again, maybe it isn't. But, as people keeps insisting on the "show me some XP source" argument, I keep speculating about it. But knowing, for sure? Impossible. And, as I said before, not really my point.

So no, I do not think it's reliable enough to consider this statement by Eugene to be some actual proof.

I'm with FujinAkari in this one. Also, it looks like Roy acknowledge being higher level by saying "With great power comes great blame".