Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
People aren't going to change opinions drastically over the course of one conversation, provided that said opinions are critically important to them. That doesn't mean that they can't change opinions drastically at all, as people do this all the time.

In any case, what makes the example brainwashing is the control being exerted. This isn't the marketplace of ideas, this is shoving propaganda at a prisoner with no contact with the outside world.
There's also the little detail about how some people will not change their minds on some of their opinions unless they are tortured or their wills are worn down and forced to do so against their will. Someone who is intent on being evil and would normally not change their mind no matter how many normal conversations you had with them is being brainwashed by this method into accepting something they would ordinarily never accept. This is a key distinction. If a person is the slightest bit open to redemption, then yeah, you don't need brainwashing. You wouldn't need control or the will saves either, because progress could be made in time. The fact that this can affect people who would be evil to their dying breath means this remains firmly within brainwashing territory.