General Exalted Discussion Thread X: Playground Cosmic Principle

[Gensh]

Sol's final, greatest form is his default form.

I understand that much. Sol with all his fulcrums is certainly invincible by definition. I'd still like him to have some sort of apocalyptic Quetzalcoatl form as a dramatic backup, though. I love me a good airship, but Dirigible Engine Daystar isn't exactly the way I'd have handled it.

Sol has never been the incarnation of perfect Virtue, because he's not a Virtuebot.

He has super-Virtue powers, and he is almost certainly the most Virtuous (big V) being in the setting, but he is also capable of making choices, including bad ones. He can choose to run away from a fight, not intervene to stop suffering, or even turn his back on Creation. He is perfectly capable of being inconsistent, especially in matters where he has to choose which Virtue to suppress.

That's merely jumping to extremes. Sol is definitively the very incarnation of Virtue, for the Dragon could not give less than his very best in order to pass into existence. He, for the first and final time, created something of lasting value. That doesn't mean he cannot suppress his Virtues, but having suppressed Virtues for several hundred years is downright out of the question. I don't play Sol as a Virtue-bot - I actually play him as an even better puppetmaster than Kejak - but that's a story for another time.

Well, here's the problem with this.

You are playing a circle of Solars who are facing an apocalyptic, world-shaking threat. Ebby escaped, Sol needing some sense smacked into him, whatever.

So, alright, how do you face them? I am not begrudging anyone who wants to play freeform, but any mechanical game (from Risus to Hybrid) needs mechanical representation for the appropriate stuff, with a keyword there being "appropriate". In Call of Cthulhu, Cthulhu eats 1d6 investigators around. He doesn't need stats there. In Exalted, he needs a full stat block so the players can punch his green face right off if they fight him.

In Exalted, Sol, Malfeas, and the entire upper tier of the setting need stats, or at least a suggestion of how to stat them, because the PCs are expected to eventually get to level where they can face them and win.

It's a matter of proper guidelines, really. "This is Ligier when he's messing around. He's much more powerful when serious but can be fought to a standstill by a single Elder Sidereal." "Here are a few ideas for the Emissary; pick whichever one you like best or make your own." I don't like the whole "behold the Most High" route that was taken in Glories. It makes Sol lesser; it removes the fear of the unknown that's crucial to these sorts of encounters.

That a group of powerful Solars can kill Sol is more of a statement about what the Solars are capable of than a statement about Sol's power.

What I dislike is that it's both inconsistent and continues to drive the Solaroid power creep. It devalues everything that has gone before. Sol can solo a Primordial, but despite needing several hundred Exalts to fell a titan, a mere circle can down Sol? What is this, Rock-Paper-Scissors?

As previously mentioned, almost everything in the game needs a mechanical construct, or the capability to be represented as such.

The King is Dead is a story, empowered by the reality-twisting magic of the Sidereal Exalted. One where a wise beggar is revealed to be the long lost son of the dying King. One where the sun goes dark and a new light is fixed into the sky. One where a brave young soldier is given responsibility far beyond what he expected. It's mechanical representation as Charm is there to help tell those stories.

My problem is that of the raksha; by codifying that story, you're limiting it. Everyone knows now that if Sol goes down, you can have a Sid replace him. Gone are the quests to consult with the Maidens or to demand Malfeas crown a new King of the Gods or for a Solar to rise by dint of his own heroic spirit. Sure, every ST can do such in his own game, but players are more likely to balk at him changing the rules than for him to have made up the rules wholesale. Rules exist to encourage good games, yet this one does the opposite.

IIRC, Nephilpal said they had upshot that to Essence 6 or so after statting out the Sun.

I don't have so much of a problem with Elders downing Sol. After all, Exalts weren't supposed to surpass E5; such a circle is truly the best of the best. Glory to the Most High can die in a fire, though.