Quote Originally Posted by Carry2 View Post
As for the yet-another-Batman-example: I think the problem here is a tendency to (A) lump the various qualities of an example under one alignment heading and/or (B) cherry-pick the qualities a given person wants to dissociate. For example, "The Joker makes elaborate plans, the Joker is CE, therefore planning is not Lawful." No, it just means the Joker is, in fact, less-than-perfectly Chaotic, just as Batman is, in fact, less-than-perfectly Lawful thanks to technical violations of the legal system, despite having a strong LG batting average (no pun intended,) based on other stuff he does. This doesn't make planning any less Lawful or criminality non-Chaotic.
I have concluded that you seem to be missing something fundamental about what the D&D Alignment system is and is not.

The Joker does not have an Alignment; he's a comic book character, not an NPC. However the Joker's behavior is often held up as a prime example of how a Chaotic Evil villain might behave. The Joker is Chaotic because he rejects the concept of an Orderly society. The Joker expresses this best in the Graphic Novel "Batman: the Killing Joke", in the movie "The Dark Knight", and in the "Batman: the Animated Series" episode "Joker's Favor". In each of those stories the Joker attempts to drive a law abiding citizen (Commissioner Gordon in "Killing Joke", the commuters and prisoners trapped on the barges in "The Dark Knight", and Charlie Collins in "Joker's Favor") to the brink of madness by terrorizing them. The Joker is Evil because he has no regard for human life, except his own. He callously murders people for fun, abuses Harley Quinn, and creates the "Laughing Fish" by pouring a version of Joker toxin that only affects fish into the Gotham river.

Despite the Joker of "TDK"'s protestations, in all of his incarnations the Joker is a master planner. That means, in terms of the D&D game, that the Joker has a high Intelligence score; it says nothing about whether he is Chaotic or not. Belkar Bitterleaf doesn't make long term plans, but that's not because he's Chaotic, its because his Intelligence score is low.

What I'm trying to hammer home is that Alignment is a code of conduct that governs how you live your life. It doesn't make you smart or stupid (that's your Intelligence score) nor does it imply common sense or lack thereof (that's your Wisdom score). Furthermore actions that might be considered a violation of one's Alignment in one context are an affirmation of your Alignment in other cases. You keep mentioning lying. Lying is not inherently Chaotic or Evil. What matters is the context. Who are you lying to? Why are you lying? Is there a way to avoid an outright lie and still not tell someone a secret? There are plenty of ways to bend the truth without actually lying. O-Chul, Durkon and Tarquin all do it, and they are all Lawful.

Finally there is no "one" way to role-play each Alignment. By insisting that there is, you are showing a lack of experience with how the D&D game has evolved since 1974 (when there were only three Alignments, Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic). A Lawful Good character can be jolly and make jokes. A Chaotic Evil character can be a humorless scold. (Maybe he kills anyone whom he thinks is making fun of him?) A Lawful Neutral bureaucrat could actively help people navigate the bureaucracy, provide cheerful customer service and give tips on how to avoid breaking the law by accident. One Chaotic Neutral Xaositect could go around breaking people's windows in the Lady's Ward for the "lulz", and when people ask her to stop, she casts magic missiles at them until the Dabus and the Sons of Mercy show up to kill her. Another Xaositect might knock on people's door and offer to paint murals on the sides of their homes; if they decline, she'll shrug and go to the next home and repeat her offer. She doesn't do this because she feels the need to get permission; instead she doesn't want the hassle of the owners asking the Dabus to arrest her and then having to spend three hours interpreting a series of rebuses. She's rather spontaneously paint a mural as the inspiration comes to her; sooner of later some Basher'll let her paint his kip so why get worked up over an addle-pate who won't?