Quote Originally Posted by JAnderson789 View Post
Not particularly, no. Aside from a couple new breaking points that will rarely, if ever, come up in play and then only in passing, the Humanity rules are largely the same. I don't understand what you're trying to say: vampires are cursed, you're preaching to the choir here.

My problem is not with the rules, but with the writers trying to claim that vampirism isn't an evil condition and that vampires are not really people, despite the rules that they wrote contradicting that statement. Vampires ARE people, people laboring under a curse that forces them to drink human blood, and vampire "heroes" are heroic because they refuse to willingly give into their darker nature no matter how tempting it is. There is always the faint hope that they could overcome or cure their condition to keep them going.

A vampire with low humanity can never be a paragon of moral virtue, because they are unable to empathize with humans or understand why hurting people is wrong (if you listen to testimonials concerning real life sociopaths, you'll notice that they commonly see no problem with doing things like setting people on fire out of spite, even if they're otherwise gifted at manipulating other people's emotions). The lower a vampire's humanity, the more of a sociopath they are. The rules state this unambiguously, but the writers continually state the opposite.

Then we have people arguing that high Humanity does not equate to being a morally upright person, at which point I've decided to just ditch Humanity entirely and use Conscience from Mirrors because it is simple and unambiguous and doesn't invite arguments over semantics.

When I say "pushing character to act like monsters," I refer to things like the new nature/demeanor rules that reward characters for acting like monsters. Humanity doesn't force any behavior unless it inflicts an annoying bane.
It seems to me that it's pointing out that from a purely vampire point of view, they aren't evil. Sure, by human standards they are, but that's different. It's about who sets the scale.

Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Silver View Post
Speaking of moral relativism, he post-God Machine Chronicle nWoD is not a world torn between Good and Evil, but rather Order and Chaos. Sometimes, the God Machine seems merciless, using humans as nothing more than pawns in its vast, inscrutable plans. On the other hand, when everything goes to hell (literally or figuratively), the God Machine sends its angels to fix the problem, or to be specific, the God Machine sends its angels to nudge the party into solving the problem.

This is one of the possible endings to the God Machine Chronicle. Open at your own risk!
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The party is given the power to decide between Heaven on Earth or Hell on Earth by either opening the Gates of Heaven and locking the Gates of Hell, or vice-versa. Heaven is described as a perfectly orderly universe where there is no pain and suffering, but there is also no pleasure and free will. Hell is described as being the exact opposite, a world where nothing is permanent and the heights of pain and pleasure and happiness and sorrow and free will go to the extremes.

Of course, the party can Take a Third Option, and lock both Gates (this is what the example party in one in the related short story does). This results in the God Machine and its Angels as well as Demons being permanently cut off from the world, and humanity is free to forge its own destiny. Basically, the World of Darkness becomes the normal world, with no more supernatural influence.

What gate?


Ultimately, it's up to the Storyteller to determine if the God Machine is a Big Good or a Big Bad, or both. Personally, I'm leaning towards Big Good with an emphasis on Good is Not Nice.
Huh. There's a The God Machine Chronicle now? I thought it was all ideas, plot hooks, etc. and not a story/campaign book.

Also, "no free will, no pain" is heaven? Because that abounds like the choices are Hell, and a differently themed Hell.

Quote Originally Posted by Longes View Post
O hai, Shin Megami Tensei! Didn't see you there.

EDIT: I've just read the prologue story of the GMC, where rumors on the internet become reality. Just... Like... Persona 2!!!11 What a twist!
But now you have a system to play them in!