Dark Souls II: The Thread, AND the Game!

[Snowbluff]

Not nearly enough of an issue to throw out the idea of obligatory PvP, or be a legitimate argument against it.

As for what a dickwraith gets out of slaughtering a newb, you'll have to ask them; I don't imagine you'll have much difficulty finding someone to answer.

That's a cue telling me it's the perfect point. It will always be an issue. THe only muscle memories you are learning for being beaten to a pulp in a laggy match are akin to prefire and overfiring in CoD.

For actually aggressors, it's an absolute waste of time. PvPers get nothing but their handful of souls. No lessons are learned because they are playing against someone with none of the skill or interest to teach them. Anyone looking to challenge themselves, the heart of Dark Souls as some people would put it, they've achieved nothing.

Short of some challenge runs, you'll never get the same calibre of muscle memory and timings drilled into you via PvE as you will in PvP as a singular example. If there are unique and applicable skills that can be acquired via PvP and there are, the lessons learned from it are neither redundant or a waste of time.

That's incorrect when accounting for two points.

1) PvEers challenging themselves with challenge runs that you brought up.
2) PvEers intentionally drilling and playing daredevil with these skills. If it can use functional in PvE, it can be learned in PvE. Otherwise, it would be impossible to apply.

For example, dead angles with great scythes. If you can do it in PvP against a little hollow soldier, you can practice it against a hollow soldier. If you can't dead angle the little dude, it's not a valuable skill and you couldn't practice it in PvP. It would probably be more useful to try it versus Black Knights, though...