Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
aren't we talking about second edition Ebon Dragon? the one that the fanbase doesn't consider to be canon, because they like 1e Ebon Dragon better, because he isn't Snidely Whiplash Incarnate? because really, I'm pretty sure even the developers expressed distaste about the current characterization of the Yozis- last I checked, they said something along the lines of the Yozis not being bound by their excellencies as much.

so yeah, I'm not going to waste time arguing about a character that is on its way out, canon-wise, and since when did Exalted aka "Anti-DnD everything as much as possible while still being fantasy" the RPG get into this discussion? I'm not going to argue over two mutually incompatible settings and how they work for this. I'm done. Think whatever you want.
You still haven't defined at what point something becomes in your eyes irredeemable. I apologize for asking again, but I don't see that we can have a productive discussion without being aware of the point where you believe that occurs. Of course it's largely a judgement call, but without knowing your criteria for this matter... we can't effectively try to demonstrate that Liches are or are not redeemable.

I'm not familiar with Exalted, but I would argue that even then, there is no such thing as an irredeemable character, in the end, and if White Wolf suggests that there is, I would argue that it's poor writing and not very good vis a vis their own typically level headed stance on morality. But again, I'm not familiar with why the character would be irredeemable.

But again, it isn't really possible for us to present constructive points without having a better idea of where redemption is no longer possible in your eyes. We'll say in D&D or in Roleplaying games in general (and if the rules are different for those then that helps too) because otherwise formulating arguments against or for this becomes something that is impossible for us to do.