Quote Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky View Post
I agree the maneuver is too much, I said so. I was the first to even say it shouldn't even do bonus damage at all, I think. It's too strong, just as MANY spells are, and I support nerfing the entire lot of them.
I said your argument was trite and weak, that the martial can "do this all day" is a major factor. And ironic, as you complained about someone else's over-used rhetoric in the same sentence.
It is a major factor at actual tables, where players don't know what's coming and so manage their resources. CharOp boardwankery may see it differently.

Quote Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky View Post
What post? I didn't see any post from her on this thread.
That's because it's not in this thread.

Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
Right you are, since Pathfinder never seems to define off hand outside the context of wielding two weapons. It was 3.5 that had the term in their glossary.
What PF does is specifically define which natural attacks are primary and which are secondary. If you only attack with natural weapons, primaries never take penalties (no matter how many you have), while secondaries always take -5 (-2 with multiattack.)

So if I have a bite, 2 claws and a sting, in PF they are all primary and so I take no penalties, even if I don't have Multiattack. But if I have a gore and 4 hooves, the hooves are all secondary while the gore is primary.