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Thread: Lord of the Undead PrC

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Jun 2012

    Default Re: Lord of the Undead PrC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Requirements: I can take out Bolster Resistance or change it to 'any other corpsecrafter feat' and honestly for simplicity, I'd say that the Corpsecrafter effect for Necromancer variants just counts as the feat for free (so they could take the feats using it as a prerequisite) but I can make a note for that as well.
    You could make it an houserule that goes with the prestige class, but it is just that; an houserule. Officially, they are still differently named but mechanically similar abilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Class Skills: yea no denying that. But yes those skills do certainly make sense for them to have. I probably should drop Diplomacy for Gather Information since body hunting is a full time job.
    Makes sense
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Spellcasting: Actually it was derived from the True Necromancer's passive effect in regards to the Animate/create undead spells. I must have missed the 'all necromancy spells' but it should still be applying to all things specifically dealing with undead like the animate, create, revive spells, seel bones, etc, etc and the like.
    True necromancer gets nothing of the sorts. They receive a bonus on caster level when casting necromancy spells (not just those related to undead).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Rebuke/Command: I shall change it to 'effective animate undead caster level' instead so if they have some odd martial multiclassing it wont keep rising.
    Effective caster level is different from caster level. Permanent effects like Necromantic Prowess and Practiced Spellcaster increase the caster level, but the effective caster level is equal to the permanent caster level + temporary effects. Spells use effective caster level for most things, but the control limit on Animate Dead is a notable exception.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Deathbound Domain: Changing to 'gain the benefits of one domain from the following list of Death, Undeath, or Deathbound. Arcane casters will add the spells to their list of spells known as well as the related Domain power as well.
    No Arcane Disciple bonus feat then? At least it wouldn't let them use a domain spell more times per day than an actual cleric (as many times per day as they have spell slots, versus 1 time per day per spell level).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Improved Corpsecrafter: Undead Mastery isnt giving Hp...? That's an epic feat. And the Necromancer Variant is the same as Corpsecrafter itself. so you really wouldn't have both? With Desecrate up, thats like +7 HP per hit die at max.
    Not the epic feat, the necromancy specialist variant. Making it the same as Corpsecrafter is an houserule, it is not an official rule, as Realms of Chaos noted earlier in the thread. By RAW, most of the things I listed stack (a slightly less broken interpretation is that the necromancy specialist variant only applies to spells cast as a wizard, and the dread necromancer class feature only applies to spells cast as a dread necromancer, but all the other things definitely stack).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Share Spells: LotU (Lord of the Undead); also given it's at 3rd level, I'm dropping this range to 10 ft per lvl in this class.
    I was poking you on your sudden use of an abbreviation (you used it only there) in a place where the long name should have been used.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Necropower: Er, Zombie's start at 1. so idk how I'd get a zombie to 11 but *not* give an incorporeal undead +10 unless I blatantly said 'corporeal undead get +1/level, but incorporeal get +1/2 levels'. That might not be so bad actually...
    I was very clear on what I meant. Reword it "If an undead created by the Lord of the Undead would have (or currently has) a Charisma score lower than 1 + its Lord of the Undead class level, it is raised to this amount. When the Lord of the Undeath's class level increases, the threshold changes, and creatures with a Charisma score lower than the new threshold have their Charisma score raised to the new amount." You'll get zombies with 11 Charisma, but no spectre with 25 (or devourer with 27).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Summoning Glyph: Um no. It's not a freebee summon from another dimension like a Paladin Mount. It's just a specialized 'teleportation' of your minions only. If its destroyed in battle after you call it, then it's destroyed for real just as per normal if you don't have any revive undead spells ready...
    Then don't use the words summon or summoning at all. Rename it teleportation glyph and consistently say it teleports (does not summon) the undead to you. Summoning has a clearly defined meaning in the rules of D&D, and that meaning includes the notion that a summoned creature doesn't die if killed as a summoned creature, merely taking 24 hours to reform to its home plane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Undead Mastery: This...works exactly as the Dread Necromancer works just without being explicitly Charisma based. If this is a character level 2"0 rpc of spellcaster 10 and this class 10, they'd get 320 HD undead total as well with 34 in their main stat. Furthermore, the Animate Undead Spell itself blatantly says that they can only create Caster level x2 in HD of undead with a single cast so even at character level 20 with their caster level as 20 (for undead spells only) they could create a 40 HD skeleton/zombie at best without some caster level hacking or something.
    Wrong and wrong. The dread necromancer ability gives a control limit of (4 + Charisma modifier) * class level. This ability gives a control limit of (4 + Charisma modifier) * 4. Unless your caster level actually is 4, the former is way, way better than the later. Furthermore, I'm beginning to assume you don't know enough about how to be a necromancer in D&D. Desecrate is neither a caster level hack, nor a shenanigan. The 64 HD skeleton I gave as an example? It only requires a caster level of 16.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Intelligent Undead: Uh...what's needed to be altered exactly...?
    Try this: "At seventh level, any mindless undead created by the lord of the undeath receive benefits equivalent to the Awaken Undead spell, except it grants an Intelligence score of (1d6+4) plus one-half the lord of the undeath's class level, and isn't limited by the Intelligence score that the undead creature had in life."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Undead Legion: Potentially removable or limited to saying only like...2-4 HD undead only are neglibable for control since stats can be +10 or higher at that level with high end builds...
    Seems to work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    Expanded Creation List: You've a point on the swarm shifter template and this ability won't allow them to just add class levels or the paragon template (which honestly we all know is never used in any game ever save for a dm making strong enemies he knows the players cant abuse for themselves). I can remove swarm shifter and state that each alternate type obeys the x2 caster level limit of animate dead for creation and the templates themselves count as a few extra undead for that creation limit?

    Also was meaning to add in all the other non template undead from the libris mortis without specified creation rules that every necromancer wants like deathlocks and slaymates. Or just any other cool undead like boneyards or something.
    As is often the case when paragon creature actually gets discussed, this is a thought experiment. I still think CR is not a good way to judge a monster's power level, so what about the following: base creature's HD plus template's LA must be equal to or lower than the lord of the undead's caster level.

    Of the listed templates with an LA, you have: death knight (LA +5), ghost (LA +5), ghost brute (LA +5), gravetouched ghoul (LA +2), mummified creature (LA +4), and vampire (LA +8). Umbral creature should be LA +5, based on a similar template from Savage Species (assuming the base creature's class levels are retained; the Libris Mortis version is weird in that regard). Ignoring Swarm Shifter, the only templates on the list without an LA actually are bone creature, corpse creature, necromental and revived fossil. I'd go with LA +2 for the first two, to make them viable options against gravetouched ghoul, and maybe LA +1 for the other two.

    Swarm Shifter has no LA, which I actually think is an overlook from WotC's part. I'd place it at about LA +3 at best, maybe LA +2, with a +1 increase for every 2 swarm forms beyond the first.

    For deathlock, use the ghast as a balance point. For slaymate, use the mummy.
    Last edited by Network; 2015-08-03 at 01:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    "I am a human sixtyfourthling! Fear my minimal halfling ancestry!")
    Quote Originally Posted by Zweisteine View Post
    So the real question is, what is a Ling?