[3.5] Bloodlines. After a week of research, I still don't get them.

[Andorn]

It's pretty apparent to me what the (main) problem is with bloodline's RAW. The ways in which they act like levels (or don't) fall under three categories:
* ways they explicitly DO act like levels (raise skill rank maximum, effects that count levels count them)
* ways they explicitly DON'T act like levels (no HD, no BAB/saves)
* ways they helpfully leave out for us to argue about

It's that third category that's a problem (obviously) and the rest of the text is nowhere near as clear as it needs to be to determine what's what in that regard. Many people here seem to think it is, for some reason, but really it's just not clear enough to give us what the "right" ruling is.

Pretty succinct.

Ways they act like real levels:
* raise skill rank maximum
* raise class abilities that are based on class level
* uses the word "level" in text that refers to the mechanics

Ways they don't act like real levels
* No hit dice
* No BAB
* No saving throw bonuses
* No skill points
* No progression on spell tables
* No new class abilities
* No advancement of class abilities whose advancement is tabularized (sneak attack, EB, etc)
* No progression for feats based on character levels
* No progression for stat points based on character levels
* No advancement of character abilities based on character level
* If you don't take a bloodline level on schedule, you suffer a 20% XP penalty until you do
* RAW specifically argues against a static level adjustment
* RAW specifically says bloodline levels don't increase a character's character level, like a normal class level does

Things being argued about:
* Should we read into the qualifiers in the text that they raise character level in some other way?
* Should costs/benefits of different approaches affect reaching a consensus on whether or not BL affect ECL?

Things we *could* argue about (which would be more productive):
* How should we evaluate designer's statements that bloodline levels were totally free in his campaign?
* Since BLs don't count for gaining level-based feats and stat increases, should they also postpone epic entry?
* Since a bloodline represents some ancestral cuckoo in the family tree, is it possible to have more than one bloodline?
* What is the difference between minor, intermediate, and major bloodlines? Number of generations? Strength of the ancestor? Some combination of the two?


My position in a nutshell:
1) Bloodline levels are so different in the way they work from normal levels that they are clearly NOT normal levels. So, despite the fact they are called "levels", they are not character levels, or class levels, but some other type of level. This isn't spelled out in the text, but when it comes to looking at their features, it is pretty clear, at least to me.

2) There are significant costs associated with a higher character level:
A) your next level is more expensive.
B) being a level higher, you gain less XP from the encounters that you fight. To gain parity, you have to fight tougher stuff. To be considered a level high while being denied the benefits normally gained from a character level is wrong.
C) the cumulative effects of multiple BLs makes these costs grow as the character progresses.

Incurring these costs without gaining the benefits you gain with a normal level is too high a price, game balance wise, for what you get from having a bloodline. Whether you have a minor, intermediate, or major bloodline, the system is set up so that you have to pay the BL before you get the 3rd ability. So, you get a +2 to one skill check somewhere, and a specified feat (which if you already have you'd then get no benefit from). Then you either take the bloodline level, or pay a 20% XP penalty for the rest of the character's life. To impose a full character level without the character getting all the standard benefits of a real level, for the minor benefits a bloodline grants, is too much.

If you take the bloodline level, you get a slightly higher skill cap (which has little to no combat effect,) and a +1 level to calculated class abilities, which is a significant benefit, but these benefits are far less in total than you get from a real class level, or from a template that is good enough to come with a level adjustment.

3) The designer has stated that they do not advance character level for the purpose of gaining level-based feats or stat increases. To treat them as a character level would require adjusting the levels at which the character would then get feats and stat points. That is unsupported by RAW anywhere else, it is complicated, unnecessary, and downright silly.

4) The facts that the designer gave them out in his game for free, that the RAW states he didn't want a static level adjustment, and that they don't advance character level the way a normal class level does do, that they provide no advancement for getting level-based feats or stat points, are sufficient for me to believe they do not affect ECL.

5) So we are left with an implementation problem, a gaping hole you can drive a truck through: How to handle the XP? I believe the easiest way to do it is to just deduct the XP from the player's total. It is not without precedent, as other things also cause XP to be deducted from a player's total. Nothing in the game has ever caused the XP level chart to be revised, so just deducting the XP is far less troublesome.

5) In my opinion, it is easier to deduct the XP than it is to treat it as a character level. it is more balanced cost vs benefit than it would be to make it a character level of some sort, and it is more consistent with the intent the designer has expressed.