Quote Originally Posted by Nu View Post
Again, it is the only guideline given for starting players out beyond the first tier. You call it a suggestion, but it's the only one; if you choose to ignore it then you're on your own. And we cannot just cherry-pick the "low magic" side, because perhaps someone does want to run a high magic campaign but is concerned over the power level of some items over the others--if anything, it's more of a problem then, because magic items will be expected and more common but can possibly break the game (and no, that's not the point of magic items, at least not to everyone)! It's a perfectly legitimate discussion to figure out which magic items might be a problem and why they are a problem.
The DMG is a book full of suggestions and the book clearly says that it is a suggestion. Also the DMG came after the PHB so basically you were on your own before the DMG came around if you wanted a higher level character.

Also middle magic item games says to not give a magic item till level 11 either (you get two though) and you get a magic item at level 5 in a high level game. Also I would like to point out that just because you follow the guidelines you also have full control over what items to give your higher level players, the book doesn't say to give the DMG and have them flip through the pages. Even if you HAVE to give magic items you have full control over what magic items to give out, the player never has any agency unless you give that agency. Magic items might be expected but you are still the one in control.

You can discuss which items will cause a problem (and I did say that such stat up items DO cause problems) but if you are going to actually call it a strike against a game I will remind you that you are over exaggerating something that isn't a problem with the game until you actually put it into the game.

"If you don't like it, don't use it" is not an answer, it's a dismissal. It does not address any concerns raised or present any arguable points, it simply sidesteps the whole issue. It's not helpful and it's not relevant. It might as well be a troll response.
Well then, if you don't like it then why use it? Especially when the book says don't like it don't use it. It isn't my words it is what the book says. It isn't a troll response if the book basically says that unless you think the book is trolling you.

There's more to discuss here than "I don't like the item" or "I like the item", there's the whys and the impact the item has on the game and on a particular character, and the ideas of how it could be better handled and why it was handled the way it was. Frankly, to dismiss all of that with a simple "don't use it if you don't like it" is a tad insulting.
Right now the discussion seems to mostly stem of envy and what if another player gets jealous over someone else getting an item and supposedly invalidating their character . This seems to be less of a mechanics problem and more of a social problem. I don't think D&D can and should fix the problem of people getting envious over other people. Quite frankly I play D&D to have fun, not to have to live out an after school special on the importance of sharing, if removing magic items stops such problems then I am all for it. Maybe you have more tolerance than me about dealing with people so I congratulate you if that is true.