Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
I know it's not my thread, and I don't want to derail, but I don't think the benchmark of an ECL 20 should be "gets 9th level spells" or "can deal X 100 pints of damage per round as an ubercharger".

If that's how games played out, no-one would play anything other than Tier 1 casters and Lion Totem Barbarian Leap Attackers.

...in an actual table game, there is always room for (and often a need for) skillmonkeys, facemen and other sundry party members. I personally can't imagine anything worse than being in a game where my PC options were limited to either full caster or ubercharger.

I fully understand that excessively high LA makes a character virtually unplayable. But I don't agree that an LA +2 or +3 would cripple something like a Succubus as a viable character; YMMV.

FWIW, an ubercharger can be thwarted by something as "low level" as a Quickened Grease, or a Halt/Hesitate spell. A Succubus Sorcerer would have a pretty high save DC. I know the Christmas tree effect means that the ubercharger is expected to have SR, Mind Blank, Freedom of Movement, True Seeing etc. 24/7 as soon as they can afford it, but still...
Ammm thurbane we need the other half of the post