Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

[unbeliever536]

I'm Enyavar Nathis.

So... so it's not about the scar story, but about attacking the author as a liar? Rich said something on this here forums in probably a very different context, I can't remember it exactly - Summon banana - iirc it was something about being sorry to have used the b-word too often so people had been calling him a misogynist writer, and that he wouldn't use that term lightly from now on. I may be wrong, that thread is older.

Here is a summary of the argument I see Huitzil making:

1) The Right Head's manner of speech and the is reminiscent of arguments made by a certain set of people on the internet. This goes deeper than the fact that he's making some sort of "not all bad" claim, presumably; I would guess it has to do with word choice or sentence structure. (Based on some context clues, I'm guessing he's talking about gamergaters, rationalists, or logic-oriented men on the internet; I didn't back the kickstarter so I can't comment on the actual dialog.)

2) Other groups on the internet frequently use (false) claims of universal misogyny, plus kafka-trapping, to advance the position that members of the group in question are unworthy of empathy and/or have no valid points to make. (That there are genuine misogynists using these groups as cover and/or attempting to recruit from them is not denied, just that misogyny is an automatic consequence of group membership.)

3) Given Rich's statements on the use of the word "bitch", his decision to use the Ettin to make this particular point is unsettlingly close to the arguments discussed in (2), since it signals that the Ettin's appeal to empathy was a false front in exactly the manner that other people claim that appeals to empathy from the group in question universally are.

4) This rather undercuts the book's point about empathy and seeking peace.

As I said above, I am unfortunately awaiting the general release of the book in question, so I can't do a proper assessment of the claim. Regardless, though, this is clearly a complaint about a part of the book, and I don't see how you can dismiss it as just some angry ranting about how Rich is a liar.

So, you were not agreeing with Rich then, probably saw him as caving in to feminist speech. Which you think is a lie. Right? Are you defending the position that people may use that b-slur on others and that it isn't misogynistic at all?

If so, then I understand that you are perceiving the ettin - who calls other people a birch, in anger - as a placeholder for your arguments. Right? And then you are outraged because o-CHUL is cutting him down. As a symbol of how Rich disapproves of so-called misogynism which truly is only a political fabrication. Did I get that right?

No - Huitzil's claim is that, given his prior statements, the Giant's choice to have the ettin use the word "bitch" is a signal that the Right Head's style of argument, taken as a whole, should be taken to indicate that the arguer is a misogynist (as, he claims, many other people already say it is). Huitzil has not, as far as I can see, attempted to defend the use of the word; to the extent that he's defending anything he's trying to defend the Right Head's manner of speech before the Left Head is killed. The argument goes: the Giant thinks "bitch" is a very serious insult, to be reserved for unsympathetic characters only -> the Giant has a character use that word after an extended section of dialog paralleling a specific group often accused of misogyny -> the Giant is implicitly saying that said group consists entirely of misogynists -> the Giant is excluding said group from his general message of empathy and reaching out.

In this thread, Huitzil has not endorsed misogyny. Huitzil has not claimed misogyny does not exist. Huitzil has not claimed misogyny does not exist within whatever group he's talking about. Huitzil's entire claim is that people keep saying that misogyny is the only reason this group could possibly have for making whatever claim it does, and any protests to the contrary are ignored. This claim admits hypotheses besides "Huitzil is a misogynist"; perhaps you should consider one of them.

(I'm Gazeboist, sometimes The)