Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
Spoiler: V2E2 Torture and Derision
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Lionheart starts to tell Salem she has to hurry and warn her of Qrow when she interrupts by choking him with the orb Grimm’s tentacle and then having another sharp tentacle end hover around his eyes while she corrects him like a little boy.

She reminds him how afraid he was ... and tells him to remember what she can do to him. Salem also has a tendency to talk over him to Watts. There’s a lot of derision and use of pure fear here.

Yes, Salem’s voice work is spot on, and her lines are far more polite than what she’s doing. Its still over the top.
Spoiler: V5C2
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Minor correction, but Lionheart starts to tell Salem that she needs to go get the Spring Maiden right away. There's no mention of Qrow at that point cause it had already been brought up.

Main point though, not other matters. I'll catch the episode again tomorrow but I don't remember Salem cutting off Lionheart at any given point, and while there is pure fear its all coming from Lionheart with Salem just nudging it along at the end. And at the same time that Salem does threaten Lionheart she also brings up all that he's done for her in the sense that she is thankful for it.

Yes Salem threatens Leo...because that is the best way to control him (until the point comes via plot for him to resist that) and Salem uses it deftly. She doesn't browbeat Leo with his place in her schemes until he steps outside his bounds and once she has...well the call ends actually. Its a pointed and visceral lesson because all the subtle and manipulative work happened before RWBY began (more than likely). Salem doesn't need to manipulate Leo here, just remind him that he is being manipulated and even then its carrot/stick.


Let’s look at Sienna Khan

Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
Spoiler: V5E2 Adam Taurus x Sienna Khan
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In this scene Adam is showing how someone who knows he has all the cards exercises power in a way that everyone knows is.

We know from how things end Adam is planning a coup, yet he never threatens Sienna or tries to force his views on her. He patiently presents his case to her for what he wants to do, while she gets aggravated more and more by the minute.

To be fair her ideas are all relatively sane, if not actually reasonable, next to Adam’s for what the Faunus are to do.

Sienna says that the Faunus shouldn’t work with humans they know nothing about to achieve their goals, which to Sienna is apparently Faunus equality of some sort. Sienna doesn’t see throwing the world into Chaos, and starting an all out war against the humans to be a good idea.

One can, and Zodi did sort of, point out that Sienna’s ideas are actually contradictory. Sienna thinks she can achieve Faunus equality through violence. She apparently wants humans to fear the Faunus. Yet the idea that violence and fear will lead to peace and equality seems oxymoronic. Also, Sienna’s willingness to commit violence but not “start a war” seems like confusing difference in scale.

Adam ideas are much purer and easier to understand. Adam wants fight and win a war against the humans so the Faunus can take over. Adam even offers to allow Hazel to explain Salem’s goals (unfortunately, Sienna is more interested in debating with Adam so we never actually hear what Salem’s group goals actually are!).

But Adam goes through all that time explaining his ideology, and when the time comes for the coup, Adam doesn’t command anyone. Sienna watches her soldiers turn against her as she orders Adam taken prisoner. Adam is now in full control but he still takes no action against Sienna. Not until Sienna tells Adam that she isn’t going to fall in line, does he kill her, and instead of gloating, merely tells the soldiers to spread the lie Sienna was killed by a human.

Those are the actions of someone who doesn’t feel the need for bluster, or anger, or apology. This is how Salem ought to be acting.
Spoiler: Adam Taurus x Sienna Khan
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Alright, I'm going to open with one incredibly important point that is relevant before discussing this further. That being Salem and Adam are trying to accomplish two very different goals in their respective scenes and thus really aren't comparable to one another. Salem is receiving a report, reminding a pawn of her authority, and giving out her orders. Adam is planning a bloody coup and its obvious that this is the intent the entire time. Its easy to say that Adam doesn't lose his cool or bluster and the like or that he's even subtle and manipulative but the fact is the former won't happen and the latter is outright untrue.

He's not there to try and persuade Sienna Khan over to his side, he's there to murder her and assume control of the White Fang. He doesn't need to persuade Sienna to his way of thinking or manipulate her into making the choices that he needs made. He isn't trying to ensure Sienna does as he asks/commands. In fact his attempts to 'persuade' Sienna are torn down at every junction by Sienna for the bull-crap that they are.

Adam does want to wage a war against humanity and enslave them...and Sienna points out how stupid that is. And she's right. Nor are Sienna's goal particularly contradictory or difficult to follow...they've just fallen out of favor with the White Fang for Adam's more bullheaded (and foolish) views.

So yeah..he is cool and collected, but that's because he's already made up his mind about what he's going to do before he even entered the room. His decision to overthrow Sienna isn't spur of the moment or anything, he's just following through on a course of action he already made up his mind on. A course of action that could very well lose him the very support he somewhat acknowledges he needs for his genocidal plans.

Now...if Adam were actually attempting to manipulate or convince Sienna? I might agree, but that simply isn't the case.


For the record I think both scenes convey what they're supposed to do and do it well..but the idea that Adam comes off as cool and collected compared to Salem is just foreign to me.