D&D 5e Base Class Contest IV Chat Thread

[SunderedWorldDM]

Thanks for bumping this thread, SWDM. I'd almost forgotten about this little contest! Didn't realise it was almost over.

Appreciate your comments on the mesmer - I do think your earlier critique about the subclasses feeling too distant/distinct from the base class was warranted, and I did intend to add a third that would feel more like your average dude with psychic powers and hopefully tie the others together - but didn't get around to it. I did update the capstone ability to give you the option of using your reaction to impose disadvantage on the target of your Psych Out's attack roll/ability check/saving throw. I ended up not giving them a 4th reaction as I think choosing which 3 of your 7 reactions you're going to use per round is enough book-keeping/decision making for a player, and I think at-will disadvantage is a pretty juicy ability, even if it's only one specific target per round @ level 20.

I'll give your Whitescourge my best shot at reviewing, and if anyone else would like me to take another look at their class before the deadline, just let me know.

Spoiler: Whitescourge

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Still love the fluff at the start. Simple and evocative - gives you a clear picture of what to expect from the class.

Does your Center give you benefits at level 1? Its position in the class table would suggest so, but it doesn't look like you actually gain any features from your Center until 3rd level. (I later saw that you must have changed around the levels you gain features - the text of the Center feature should be updated to reflect that :) )

I still think Rebuke Unlife should scale at cantrip levels - eg 2d6 base, 3d6 at 5, 4d6 at 11, 5d6 at 17. I'm also not sure if this is important enough a feature to be in the class table - given that how often you use it will be entirely dependent on how many undead are in your campaign. If you want it to stay in the table, I can't help but feel there should be a way to use this feature against non-undead - I know it might be hard to work out the fluff, but I would like to see a line or two at the end saying something like: "You can also choose to release your stored hatred for the undead as a tangible wave of unrelenting force. As long as you have not used your Rebuke Unlife feature since your last long rest, you can use an action to cause all creatures you choose within 15 feet of you to make a Strength save against your Snippets of Power DC. On a fail, a creature takes 2d6 force damage and is knocked prone. On a success, a creature takes half as much damage and is not knocked prone. The damage increases as you gain levels in the class, according to the Whitescourge table. Once you use Rebuke Unlife in this way, you can't use your Rebuke Unlife feature again until you finish a long rest. "

You then have a class feature that is usable throughout your career, and gives the Whitescourge some much needed power at lower levels. Primal Resilience will be great when it comes up, but won't come up often, and the cantrips from Snippets of Power will be roughly equal to just hitting things with a pair of daggers until 5th level.

My issue with Spellcasting keying off Constitution is that since Constitution is already a secondary stat for everybody, you lower a spellcaster's needed attributes from 3 to 2. Every other caster needs their mental stat for spells, Con for HP, and Str or Dex for armour. Woundknitter and Exalt Whitescourges just need Con and Dex - Burning Blades also have the potential to stay with Dex using rapiers or that OP elven glaive, or take up Strength for heavy weapons. It's not a dealbreaker for everyone, as shown in this thread, but it does just feel out of place to me. Personally, after reading the fluff, either Strength or Charisma would fit better for me as a spellcasting stat. Charisma is boring but works for the same reason as a sorcerer using Cha - it's an innate, personal power that you're channeling. Strength keeps your casting stat out-of-the-box, and can use nearly all the same fluff as Con - resolve, physical might, perseverance etc. I still think it makes sense to cast from hit dice with Strength as a spellcasting mod too. Obviously it's ultimately up to you, but this is why I and others have stayed away from Con as a spellcasting mod in other homebrews.

I re-read our earlier conversation about max spell level, and I'm still a little confused. Your example of being a 13th-level Whitescourge casting Cure Wounds on his buddy allows for a 7th level spell as long as you expend 7 hit die. But a 13th-level Whitescourge has a Max Spell Level in the class table of 4th level. What does the max spell level in the table refer to, if not to the max level at which a Whitescourge can cast a spell? The levels that you get new Max Spell Levels are also out of whack for a third-caster.

I do still love the casting from hit dice mechanic, and think it works well on paper, just looking for clarification there. It's probably also worth noting that at 20th level, you essentially get a 9th level spell slot back every short rest. Expedited Revitalization makes sense both thematically and mechanically - great design and execution.

Pinnacle of Health is a big buff that comes at the same time as Extra Attack for Burning Blade, essentially turning you into a d14 hit dice class past level 1. I can see this is an attempt to balance out the damage you're taking from spellcasting, but without running the numbers (i suck at them!)/playtesting it's still a bit hard to see the power level. As it is, I'd probably keep this feature the same but move it to a level that it can stand on its own, without also gaining other benefits at the same level.

Eternal Vitality feels more like a ribbon with a little extra than a tier-upgrade - although I guess Whitescourges get their upgrade at 12, when they gain access to 6th level spells, rather than 11, in which case it makes a little more sense.

Vision of the Heartseer is a cool feature, but should probably be a bonus action, and give you more useful information than just how many HP it has left. Maybe learn its vulnerabilities and resistances/immunities?

Unquenchable Life is badass. I'd swap this with Eternal Vitality as your 3rd-tier upgrade feature. As a rule I don't like features that scale off proficiency, but I think I already mentioned that and you decided against changing it.

Pulsing Form is solid mechanically, but should probably read: "Beginning at 17th level, your body can’t contain the radiance within, releasing it into the surrounding area. Whenever a hostile creature ends its turn within 10 feet of you, you can use a reaction to force the creature to make a Dexterity saving throw against your Snippets of Power DC. On a fail, it takes 2d8 radiant damage, or 4d8 if it is undead or from the Negative Energy plane."

Spellmaster is oddly worded, because as a class you don't have spell slots to expend. If it works how I think it works (giving you free 1st-level slots forever), I think it probably needs to be toned back. Similar to the wizard's Spell Mastery, I'd only give the Whitescourge one first-level spell for free - but instead of also gaining a 2nd level spell, they can choose which 1st level one they can cast at-will when they prepare spells for the day (lot of good Cleric options even at high levels - Bless, Guiding Bolt [great w a rogue], Sanctuary, Shield of Faith).

Restoration is a good capstone for this class. Nice work.

For all your subclasses, I'd suggest finding some way to combine or trim their 5th and 7th level features into one. Given that Burning Blade should probably get Extra Attack at the same time as martials, I'd suggest moving their features to 5th and putting Pinnacle of Health at 7th - only 1 level after you get access to 3rd level spells, so still in time to cast away freely with Spirit Guardians and Mass Healing Word.

Woundknitter: Pool of Life and Benevolence are both solid - although Pool of Life is really two features rolled into one. If you were going to move Pinnacle of Health to 7th, I'd just scrap Our Souls as One altogether. I do like the idea of somebody else choosing to steal your health when they need it from a gameplay point of view, I don't really see how it works fluff-wise, and you can already save people as a BA on your own turn. Master of the Aura would be more appealing if Vision of the Heartseer was buffed in usefulness/power.

Exalt: Woundknitter gives a big buff to healing at level 1. Exalt gives a big buff to...detecting magic and scaring zombies. It probably needs a bit more oomph there. If this is the spellcasty subclass, it might even be a thought to give them a limited subclass spells list ala the paladin/druid/warlock - full of things like burning hands and fireball. If not, Imperial Fire could probably come down here, alongside a more passive boost. I do like that you get to choose charmed or frightened, for social and combat situations - that's a nice touch. Exarch Form is ridiculously powerful when you compare it to the Woundknitter's 14th level feature - so I'd either drop its power or significantly boost Master of the Aura. Does the turn that you use to activate the feature count against the number of rounds you can stay in the form? I'd probably just make it last for a minute like many other classes' transformation-type features.

Burning Blade: Brilliant Technique is a nice idea, but again scales of proficiency. a 1 Whitescourge/19 anything else gets just as much value from this as a level 20 Whitescourge. Is the effect indefinite? Most other classes get magical-weapon-features around level 6. I can see the fluff reasoning behind calling Extra Attack Radiant Speed, but for consistency's sake/ease of reading, it should probably just be Extra Attack. This subclass is a bit trickier as it doesn't easily fit into my Pinnacle of Health-at-level-7 pattern. If you added the extra damage scaling into the base Brilliant Technique feature, that would go a long way. Although, as it stands, at level 7 a Whitescourge with 16 Strength, PAM and a glaive will be doing 2d10+1d4+3d6+18 (average of 42 damage) - vs a raging barbarian's 2d10+1d4+15 (average of 28.5). I'd definitely tone down the bonus damage you're giving them on their weapon attacks. Mastery of Flame is an even more attractive feature than Exarch Form as it is always-on. Although strictly worse damage-wise than a rapier that has been Brilliant Techniqued, that rider is massive. End of their next turn means you're giving your allies advantage vs them and the creature gets disadvantage on all its attacks as well. And you can do this every round. While dual-wielding another rapier that has been Brilliant Techniqued, and hitting away with advantage and massive damage over and over. Or wielding a shield. This subclass probably needs the most work out of the three to become balanced IMO.

Overall, I think this class has come a long way since the last time I read it, and it looks like you've got a solid grasp on where you want it to be thematically and mechanically. It definitely feels unique enough to stand on its own as a class, and the hit dice mechanic is really interesting and does seem (to my admittedly shoddy eye) to be reasonably well balanced. A few screws to tighten in regards to wording - I understand there's probably a few mechanical points we will still disagree on - and another look over the Burning Blade and it will be all sweet for me.

Thanks for the in-depth review! Just what I need.

Center, Radiant Speed, Vision of the Heartseer, Pulsing Form, Spellmaster, and Subclasses fixed/altered/corrected, maybe not entirely the ways you suggested, but it gets them closer to balanced, clear and workable.

I'll take an in-depth look at your subclass comments in a bit, but I've tried altering Woundknitter and Exalt to eliminate the 7th level abilities and move them all to 5th. To make Exalt appealing, I've put Imperial Fire into the Visible Might ability, so it gains the charmed/frightened at 3rd level. Still need to take a bigger look at Burning Blade, though, as I see how it could quickly get out of hand.

EDIT: Did a subclass redux: eliminated the extra damage on Burning Blade, gave Woundknitter a pretty powerful capstone, and nixed/reduced some features on Exhaled Form. Would you mind looking through and seeing if I've at least addressed the problems you brought up, if not entirely fixing them?

The following has been added to Rebuke Unlife:

However, you can also manipulate this power to harm those who have a beating heart in their body, not simply those with death behind their eyes. Once before you take a long rest, you can use Rebuke Unlife on any creatures within range, not just undead or residents of the Negative Energy Plane.

I decided to keep the die leveling as-is because it lines up with the spell prep max, and as you improve in spellcasting power, the hostility and potency of your internal power increases. If I change it now, I feel it might throw off that balance.

To answer your 'max spell' question, here's a line from the Spellcasting ability.

The maximum level of spell you can prepare is shown on the table above.

So you can cast it at any level you wish, but the spells you have prepared must be of X level and under. Does that make sense?

Thanks a lot! I really needed this. Everyone else, hit me with your best shot!