The Man Keeping the Martial Down

[Quertus]

With magic and mages already that common, the real question is why isn't everyone capable of at least a little basic magery.

Why doesn't Conan have magic? Heck, with all the programmers around IRL, why can't everyone program their VCR, or write a basic phone app?

That's kind of a loaded way of phrasing it.

Prefering a more low-key or grounded world is a preferance, and its just as valid as any other.

Imagine saying the same thing about say, Game of Thrones or even The Lord of the Rings, tremendously popular and succsesful fantasy works which do not incude omnipresent over the top super-powers.

Wow. Usually, the problem is only that people want to run Conan alongside Elminster, or Joe Average alongside Superman. There's a time and place for such characters, but it's usually not alongside characters who completely outclass them - almost certainly not if you care about balance.

But what you just said? That's a completely different problem. That's not The Shoveler claiming to be a superhero, that's The Shoveler claiming to be the pinnacle of superheroes.

If a kid with a rusty knife can one-shot mechs with any regularity, you're not playing Battletech any more. There is a limit to how much you can warp things and still claim to be playing the same game. Even e6 still (incongruously IMO) leaves the "omnipresent over the top super-powers" like gods around.

That is the same thing for every scenario that provides time. Which most of them do. Especially if you want to have foreshadowing buildup and information gathering.

Really, the only situation where "given time" means that the wizard is not this broken a combination are those where he can't prepare anyway and the ability to switch spells is irrelevant.

Well, yes. The mundane super power "buy stuff" (like potions of water breathing) can (in some systems) give even Muggles this "with time, I can do anything" capability. At which point, with enough time, money, and intelligence (pun intended), anyone can do anything.

Bug? Or feature? I'm not sure, tbh. But I feel confident saying, "can do nothing, ever" is a) almost always a bug; b) not entirely unlike how martials feel to those who complain about M/C issues.

Personally, I don't particularly enjoy the "buy gear / swap spells" minigames. I'd just as soon have everyone be at 100%, all the time.

There is really no reason to keep it. Which is why nearly all other RPGs, as soon as they got a bit away from being a D&D clone got rid of it.

Lost context. I'll check on this in a bit

Because it is not a power, only a plot device ? Because such a portal might not even exist ?

What's the difference? If the plot requires us to get to another plane, but they're no way there, isn't that a world-building / scenario-building issue?

OTOH, if this is a sandbox… I suppose i could leverage knowledge of the world having *no* portals to other planes to some advantage - especially if this were D&D, where that would be bizarre.

I don't even know what that is supposed to prove and why you bring it again and again. If you want to say that knowledge skills, if the system has them, are a nice tool, i don't see any disagreement.

Oh. When people talk about what an "all Muggle" party can't do, "travel to other planes" is usually in that list. I contend that they can… you just have to wait for it… wait for it… just like the plug & play Wizards.

Yes, the ability to nova is one of the issues with D&D spellcasting. Wizards get rare ressources they can bundle where it matters and hold back when it is not needed. Everyone else can't. That is one of the reasons, casters tend to dominate the most important and memorable scenes in D&D even if they are horribly unoptimized.

Wow. That is a cool new way of expressing one of the problems. I don't know that I've ever thought in terms of spotlight quality/importance balance issues before.

It's only the case for *optimally* played Wizards - kinda the "anti Quertus", anti "player's first Wizard" scenario - so not every table - but I can definitely see it as an argument for making resource distribution even (alla my "make all Wizard spells usable at will" mantra).

The knock spell was never my example.

The knock spell is weak and rather irrelevant. The only reason it seems good is that the "open locks"-skill is utter garbage by comparison. It costs skillpoints, a heavy investment for noncasters and it can fail.

No, but it is the classic example, and one of the most productive to discuss.

You misunderstood.

For me those who do ritual magic with all the utility applications, long casting times and big effects are the primary magic users of the setting that deserve names like wizards while those who only can do fast fast magical combat tricks and use magic only for fighting are hardly deserving this designation.

I have played several characters in various (non D&D) systems that only could do ritual and utility magic and would take up a weapon and armor if the need to fight arose. Those were always wizards or magicians or druids or witches. No one would ever have considered them on the martial side of a caster-martial disparity.


I am very sceptical of you can remove all the important magic and make it into rituals everyone can learn while still keep the idea of "caster classes" or "muggle classes". The class stops being particularly relevant for how magical your character actually is.

You have a most interesting PoV. Suffice it to say, everyone my senile mind remembers talking to about this topic seemed happy giving everyone access to rituals, but only Wizards get Quick Magic. It would be like saying everyone can sacrifice to & pray to the gods for miracles, but only Priests can pull off guaranteed effects *right now*.

I can see doing things your way, but understand that, IME, it's not the prevalent perception.

Also, the Wizard I like to run? He would do everything with magic. He world user magic to comb his hair, magic to change his clothes. Or maybe that's not hair - that's actually orichalcum wires growing out of his skull. Maybe that's not clothes, that's actually solidified dreams. The Wizard I *want* to run? There would be nothing *mundane* about him.