OK, I've done a long examination of spells and spell saves. I compared the current saves with what I'd make the saves under the new stats. Full spreadsheet can be seen here.

Most saves didn't really change. Of those that did, the following covers the broad rules used (though there were some that there more specific to individual spells):

Direct transformative spells, soul-affecting spells, and many necrotic spells, use Spirit for a save.

Small-scale AOEs (15' cone, 5' radius, or 10' cube), line attacks, and several single-target spells generally use Agility for the save. This is on the assumption that the ability to move is likely to allow you to avoid most of the damaging effect. If you could move one square and be out of the area of effect, Agility should help.

Larger AOEs, and non-elemental (eg: insects, disease, etc) attacks generally use Body as a save. If simply stepping out of the way isn't enough, then either athletic prowess (eg: diving/jumping/using cover/etc) or raw physical build would be used to help mitigate the damage.

Mind gets illusions, commands, and psychic attacks. Presence gets deceptions, fear, charms, and dominations.


Overall, mental effects have a better distribution of saves — 29 Mind, 21 Presence, 23 Spirit, and 13 discovery (Mind) checks, VS 9 Int, 45 Wis, 13 Cha, and 13 discovery (Int) checks.

Physical effects have less they can distribute across, since I only have two stats, and still favors Agility, but not as lopsidedly as before. There's now 66 Body, 48 Agility, and 30 attacks (which favor Agility because they target AC), vs 20 Str, 43 Con, 59 Dex, 30 attack (likewise favoring Dex).

Under the standard game stats, Dex is beneficial by 4.5:1 vs Str, and 2:1 vs Con. (Dex is overwhelmingly preferable to Str, and largely preferable to Con.) Under the new stats, Agility is beneficial by 6:5 over Body (very nearly on par).

There's still a bit of bias to favor Agility, but it is not an overwhelmingly "must have" stat in terms of saves. Even the advantage it does have isn't quite as strong because medium and heavy armor cap the utility of Dex/Agil for the AC portion of the benefit.

Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
You could perhaps split off magical combat, such that martial combat uses Agility to hit and Body to damage, but magical attacks use Mind to hit and Spirit to damage.
Hmmm. Kyutaru's arguments are compelling, and this does give me an idea because of a coincidental correlation.

Possible setups:

1) Agility for to-hit for melee, Mind for to-hit for ranged. This applies to both physical and magical attacks. So a bow, or Firebolt, would use Mind to hit, and a dagger, or Shocking Grasp, would use Agility to hit. The correlation would largely come from Perception being a Mind skill, and that being needed for ranged accuracy. It also fits a bit better with the Ranger saves that I'd picked.

2) Use Body for both to-hit and to-damage for physical attacks. This would be like using Str for everything. Agility remains useful for defense, saves, and delicate manipulation (ie: skills), but not combat attacking (except perhaps combat maneuvers). The magic side would likely use Spirit for both to-hit and to-damage, to mirror that.

3) Body for to-hit for melee, Mind for to-hit for ranged. Similar to above.

4) Body for to-hit for physical melee, Mind for to-hit for ranged (both), Spirit for to-hit for magical melee.


I'm most inclined to #4. Melee magical attacks (eg: Shocking Grasp) are about hitting at close range by manipulating a magical effect, rather than using your body to hit with a weapon. That sounds like something Spirit would be better suited for. Body easily suits melee physical attacks, while Mind still seems like a good fit for ranged attacks of all sorts.