Quote Originally Posted by ThePurple View Post
I mean, these are the kinds of discussions we both enjoy, lol.
Yeah, we're not fighting at all. Both of us have very valid points and a lot of it just relates to 'what is the Martial power source', 'what does Epic *really* mean', and what does suspension of disbelief do.

I kind of think of it as a Thor/Captain America problem. If Thor wrestled a Dragon, I don't think anyone has any issues with it. Captain America? Um, that might be tricky to explain. So is an Epic Grappling specialist moving onto Thor territory in the Grappling realm? Seems plausible to me. Not to ThePurple.

Does a Paragon Grappling specialist ripping the arm off a scaly giant immune to normal weaponry make sense? Sure, seems fun. But I find that less plausible than an Epic Tier grappler specialist pinning down a Dragon if we're going to bring standard physics into play.

But that points right to the problem of a Martial controller in 4e — how restrained by actual physics should we be? Because if a controller can't function in each tier due to real world reasons, it isn't really viable.