View Single Post

Thread: Ancient Realms

  1. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    @Tawmis
    Thanks for posting!

    That's quite alright. I encourage you to keep that version of Drekekno for your Games.

    Martial versus Caster
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    I actually like playing Mages, so I'll see what I can come up with.

    Spoiler: 5e Wizard
    Show

    So, level 10. No school.
    Figure Point Buy start.
    15 Int, 15 Con, 11 Dex, 10 Str, 10 Wis, 10 Cha.

    Let's say High Elf to get +2 Dex and+1 Int.
    16 Int 13 Dex
    Both ASIs into Int = 20. (Can't exceed)

    +4 Proficiency
    Skills: Elf: Perception.
    Sage (Apprentice) Background: Arcana, History.
    Two bonus Languages.
    Class: Insight, Religion.

    5 Cantrips. 4/3/3/3/2

    My Typical Adventuring spell list:

    Cantrips: Fire Bolt, Light, Message,
    Poison Spray, and Acid Splash.

    (4 slots) First Level
    Shield, Mage Armor

    (3 slots) Second Level
    Misty Step, Mirror Image.

    (3 slots) Third Level
    Counterspell, Fireball.

    (3 slots) Fourth Level
    Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer.

    (2 slots) Fifth Level
    Hold Monster, Rary's Telepathic Bond.

    5 bonus spells:
    (1st) Chromatic Orb
    (2nd) Hold Person
    (3rd) Haste
    (4th) Arcane Eye
    (5th) Passwall


    Now, the real question is what is in the
    Spoiler: Spellbook
    Show


    First level spells: Shield, Thunderwave, Detect Magic, Identify, Mage Armor, Chromatic Orb

    (2nd class lv) Feather Fall, Fog Cloud.

    Second Level spells: Misty Step, Mirror Image,
    (4th class lv) Hold Person, Detect Thoughts

    Third level spells: Counterspell, Fireball.
    (6th class Level) Haste, Fly.

    Suggested Stop?

    Fourth level spells:
    Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer.
    (8th class level)
    Arcane Eye, Mord's Private Sanctum

    Fifth level spells:
    Hold Monster, Rary's Telepathic Bond.
    (10th class level)
    Passwall, Teleportation Circle.

    Currently not giving any extra spells from treasure.


    As can be expected, Wiz has some options, but not every spell available can be prepared.

    Again, switching out spells Requires knowing what is needed ahead of time, and the Baddies should not allow an 8 hour break to change things. Heck even a Short Rest might be tricky getting.

    Spoiler: calculations
    Show


    So, sacrifice a 1st level slot for 8 hours of Mage Armor, keep at least one slot in reserve for Shield. Leaving two slots for Orb.

    Three slots for 2nd Level: At least one use of Mirror Image during a fight. Save one for Misty Step, leaves only one left.

    Three slots for 3rd Level:
    One slot for Haste, one slot reserved for Counterspell, only one slot left.

    Three slots for Fourth Level:
    One slot for Phantasmal Killer, one reserved for Greater Invisibility, and most likely one Arcane Eye used to help Party Scout/Rogue

    Two slots for Fifth Level:
    One slot for Rary's Telepathic Bond, one slot reserved for Hold Monster.

    Short Rest: Even if getting 5 levels of slots back, still limited to what is already memorized, so up to player to decide what might be useful.
    Teleportation Circle escape?

    Once out of all spell slots, must spam Cantrips.


    Figure some Random (1d6) moderate, at least two Hard and maybe one Deadly - Encounters per "Adventuring day".

    Fireball is needed for large groups.
    Competes with Counterspell against enemy casters.

    Invisibility requires Concentration, and there are still ways to detect, and attackers only have Disadvantage to hit while active.

    Mirror Image only possibly prevents three hits during a fight. (Actually less effective than Dodge Action)

    No listed magical items: DM dependant.

    Oh, and for non-combat comparisons:
    No Spider Climb, or Knock (etc) spells available.

    Fly has limited speed and duration, and requires Concentration; maximum four times a day, if willing to not have any other third level spells available. Upcasting it isn't really worth doing, unless doing Party Travel.

    Creative Players and DMs that actually care, can do these - with, or without, magic.

    Spoiler: Wizard spell progression
    Show

    Maximum of 5 Cantrips.

    01 6 first level spells
    02 +2 first leel spells
    03 2 second level
    04 +2 spells
    05 2 third level spells
    06 +2 spells
    07 2 fourth level spells
    08 +2 spells
    09 2 fifth level spells
    10 +2 spells
    11 2 sixth level spells
    12 +2 spells
    13 2 seventh level spells
    14 +2 spells
    15 2 eighth level spells
    16 +2 spells
    17 2 ninth level spells
    18 +2 spells
    19 +2 spells
    20 +2 spells


    Remember that getting spells is also controlled by the DM, and how easy it is to find Scrolls as treasure.
    Most NPC Wizards horde and protect their Spellbooks like a Dragon does with Treasure!!

    *****
    So, please point out how that Wizard still outclasses the "I don't need magic" PCs?
    Martials

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    5e Barbarians doubling there HP against Physical Attacks are miles ahead of their 3x versions, with Bear Totem being leagues.
    (And people homebrewing feats to resist the only energy that hurts them.
    And now "official" races that grant that.)

    For raw effectiveness comparison, you'd have to go back to when the Barbarian was first introduced. When it was considered game breaking, along with Cavalier, and Monk.

    Fighter get the best Armor options, and Indomable for more ways to break free of magical control/restraining effects.

    Mages are more worried about maxing out their Casting stat, with a maximum of DC 19 and +11 to hit.
    (without a Wand of the Warmage: which adds +3 at most)

    That's a 50/50 bet against Warriors with Plate, shield, and Defense style. Magic added to AC means that the Mages need to roll a 16+ to hit. (Also against Monsters with AC 27)

    Fighters can sac 4 (of 7) feats for Resistance, to get Proficiency in all saves. Which is a roll of 8+ on a d20.

    Other Martials could also get all saves, and have one feat to spare, with vHumans having another.

    Maybe I just think in ways that don't always seem right to others?

    To me
    Mana/Psionic Points? Too much Math, and extremely exploitable. Especially in 5e.

    Psychic Warriors are just variant Eldritch Knights.

    Soulknife might be a Rogue Subclass.
    It's just a weapon that can't be easily lost, with maybe a few tricks added?
    Really, wouldn't be any more OP than, say, a Swashbuckler.

    Psion is just a Sorcerer type.

    Forget Wilder, seems to me that overchannel breaks Bounded Accuracy.

    *****
    Tome of Battle classes are just six different versions of either Battlemaster Fighter (something other than Superiority Dice needed), or Six new Monk Subclasses with level based # known and x/day Discipline powers (which might fit the theme better)
    (which is just a limited Slot system, to me)

    Where Stances might be a Bonus Action to activate, last no longer than a minute, and requires Concentration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    You cannot take the resistance feat more than once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    ARG! Some things in 5e just don't make sense.

    So, I suppose that this will just become part of my Homebrew.
    Should make it more 'balanced' for martials.
    Lower Spell Slots. Limited Spells Known/day.
    Concentration and Foci and/or Component requirements.

    No Wish. No endless Simulacrum. No Demiplane/s.
    Switch Astral Projection and Plane Shift.
    New = Put a CR cap on Gate?
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-08-06 at 02:14 PM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!