Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
I do ask them, and they give inconsistent answers.

Pretty consistent complaints are:

1: They can't do a full clear of a dungeon in one go without using consumables, and this bugs them even though they have always still made a net profit and are always above suggested WBL.
2: The wizard uses most of his spells in doing so and doesn't have as many as he would like to make scrolls or sell for profit in town.*

In this particular campaign I let the players call a retreat at any time without consequences, as there are several new players in the group and I am trying to build up their confidence without having to risk accidental TPKs.

*: This is a peculiarity of my particular house rules. I use a long rest variant so players don't have unlimited spells during downtime, but I allow them to save up unused spells or convert them to gold. Players can still purchase or craft items normally without expending spell slots.
Okay, well then I think we can dispense with over-analysis on the numbers, because it sounds like closer to an expectations issue than anything else. If the players think the game should work such that they can clear a dungeon (completely, leaving no significant treasure behind) in one go (rather than going out and resting, 1. having to figure out how to do so safely and 2. risking the denizens planning countermeasures or leaving with the loot in the meantime), and without expending consumables (which are then used when?), then they clearly want a game with a different challenge tuning than most of us expect. For me, having accomplishing the whole thing so close you can almost taste it is exactly how things should be, because that means you get to make tough decisions, and those decisions matter. That seems like an optimal situation. But clearly your group disagrees. I will say that this rule of having the wizard get to turn unused spells into scrolls for profit does kinda strongly communicate the idea that you are supposed to get out of the dungeon with a reserve (and not just a 'what if you run into one last monster on the way out?' reserve), and that might be messaging-in-contradiction-of-intended-message on your part. Still, overall, I think you are dealing more with differing ideas of normal than anything else.