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Thread: Most Over/Underrated Class?

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Oct 2019

    Default Re: Most Over/Underrated Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosticket View Post
    I do. In 2nd edition the Ranger was a worse Fighter that leveled up slower for basically no gain. Favored Enemy? Minor bonus.
    3rd-3.5, Compared to a Fighter it has less proficiencies, less hit points, narrow selection of conditional bonus feats that specifically forced you to stick to Light Armor, and a Animal Companion that you acquired later than a Druid and leveled up half as fast. So you ended up a bad combination of Fighter/Druid.

    5th edition its the same problem. The Fighter is so much better in 5e. Action Surge is very good because who doesnt like a Free Turn once per Short Rests or twice at level 17?

    5e Ranger has a very limited Spells Known list, no cantrips, Empty levels, and many abilities have little mechanical use. So basically the same problem as always.

    In 5th edition a Fighter uniquely learns 3 and 4 Attacks without any condition. Ranger has to learn Quick Quiver. It can only be used twice a day, only works with Ranged Attacks, requires Concentration for 1 minute duration

    The nail in the coffin is that the level 10+ Bard class can use Magical Secrets to pick unique Ranger spells at a much lower level than a Ranger can, while still have more Spells Known, more slots, and better abilities. a Valor Bard can replace the whole Ranger class.
    You do realize that Ranger can easily and greatly overshadow Fighter in nova damage right? And that it can overall get comparable level of damage up to level 20 for several encounters a day (of course if you spend all day fighting, obviously Ranger is gonna be left in the dust eventually)?

    The fact that Ranger has slightly less mundane damage than a Fighter without spending resources is not a bug, it's a feature. A game-balancing feature to counter the fact that Ranger has several ways to save party's hide whereas Fighter would be nigh useless because unless heavy multiclass or extremely specific build (including EK options), Fighter is overall just about "dealing damage", or tanking/holding one or two enemies at a time at most.
    So there would be no reason to play a Fighter if he didn't hold that candle of highest mundane weapon damage. ^^

    Also, I don't see where there are dead levels: even levels without dedicate class or archetype feature contribute to spellcaster level and spell known. It's up to each whether to consider a spell as a feature or not.
    For me, it's certainly one, especially since Ranger has few spell known and few slots (meaning that each spell known and each slot used on it is more meaningful for a Ranger than same spell would be on a Wizard or Druid).

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    You're hypothetically a 20th level Eldritch Knight at this point--you've got teleportation built in to your Action Surge, twice per short rest. If someone puts you in a Force Cage, you can Teleport outside and then hit them with 8 attacks. Misty Step is redundant and not a good investment of free picks.
    Small fix that I forgot to point out earlier.
    You don't need to be 20th level to know Misty Step. 8th level is largely enough. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    This is indeed where we disagree. I don't think there are enough interesting spells in those schools, at least not in Evocation. Or, rather, not interesting enough for the EK, at the level he gets them.
    And that's why i don't think blasting is interesting for a Fighter. Yes, the Fighter is lacking in crowd management, and a fireball is pretty good for this. But you get your Fireball at level 13.
    At this level, what kind of crowd are you facing? How tough are this crowd compared to the 28 average damages of the Fireball? And what is your normal ressourceless damage output per round? What about your party's ressourceless damage output?
    If you face 12+ enemies of CR 1 or lower, Fireball is perfect. But against 5+ enemies of CR 2, this is already less worthy of the spell slot and of your action probably. And both encounter are classified as "easy" for 4 level 13 PC..
    At this level, the Fireball is very situational. And it's by far the best 3rd level damage spell.
    So, yes, you probably want Fireball in your spells known. But you have 9 spells known, do you need 3 or 4 situational blast spells in your spells known?
    OTOH, Haste, Fly, Mirror Image, Misty Step, or even Phantom Steed will come in use much more often. They whether build on your strengths, or cover one of your weakness (mobility notably).
    Sorry Petrocorus, I missed your reply. ;)

    Overall I agree with you. My point was more about AOE in general for an EK. I don't see the problem with having a Burning Hands that you then swap with Shatter then with Fireball.
    And yeah, it's much better if you have any regular caster in party because they get the spells at the level where they made the biggest dent to enemies when doing the "damage done / average max hp" ratio.

    So certainly, in a regular party, Fireball for an EK, considering how big it costs for him and when he gets it is situational. But that's precisely in those situations that you'll be glad you have it: the ability to blow one, or possibly two, Fireball can transform a difficult fight into an easy fight, because in your single turn, you put several enemies low enough on HP to allow friends to finish them off before they act. It's a kind of "poker all-in", so certainly not a tactic I'd recommend taking lightly. When you decided well, you really enjoy it. ^^

    Let's be honest though: I never played an Eldricht Knight as a single class, because I think a dual-class with any caster is miles better from start to finish. Especially because it allows me to use that "blasting aspect" more often early. :)
    Last edited by HiveStriker; 2019-11-28 at 10:00 AM.