Dune II

[Ramza00]

Re: Actual Dune stuff.

As for it being a Jungian idea, fair enough, the ancestral memory certainly ties in well enough with that. Didn't realize Jung was quite so, well...sexist, perhaps, but eh, art draws from all sorts of things. *shrug*

Pretty sure that Herbert himself explained the Jungian influence on his story. (And for context, Freud and Jung were at one point contemporaries, though Jung was quite a bit younger) and the two of them had an outsized impact on psychology for nearly a century. They brought their 19th century Points of view along with them as they moved into the 20th century.

*laughs*

This was the not going to elaborate further stuff, for I am not going to talk Dr. Sabina Spielrein here on the forums and how she is awesome and incredible, but also how sexist society was in 1905 to 1912. And I am skipping over all the 1905 to 1912 stuff with her and med school, Jung, Freud, their bromance breaking up, etc. I am skipping how she got into the tradition and how she instantly got better once Eugen Bleuler a third famous psychoanalysis founders did some legal documents preventing a male abuser who was family from seeing here (aka the subject that was being talked about)

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Yes all three (far less Sabina) are going to sound archaic and from the 1800s not the 2020s or the 1950s and 60s when dune was being written. That said Sabina kind of helped Freud re-alter the direction of his work from the 1910s to 1920s (less sex stuff more society is intergenerational and social not just the sec stuff, Jung went in the opposite direction looking for universal story tropes and archetypes. stuff we would later call the Heroes Journey which is not Jung but Joseph Campbell but Campbell was a Jung Scholar. and Herbert is critiquing this Campbell like idea of a messiah / hero.)

and how Sabina became a therapist and researcher in her own right and how her stuff after 1920 is all child development stuff (she worked at Jean Piaget ‘s clinic as a coworker but also was his therapist, and then her family moved again so then teaches the other giant in the field Lev Vygotsky as his teacher in Russia / USSR.) We are only now seeing how much Sabina influenced the field for she died a horrible death, as millions others did due to world war 2, and people starting looking at her diaries and papers in the 1970s and 1990s for she wrote so much down but they were just stored in a closet that others later discovers. Sabina being one of the hidden mothers of this tradition and actually the origin of many ideas. It is not just Anna Freud and Melanie Klein in the 1920s as the founders of the feminine influence of this tradition.

If you want more info on this, which is only like 30% of the reason Jung and Freud did a messy break up (not the only reason for Freud and Jung are mess), the podcast Ordinary Unhappiness (two historians of the field) did a movie review of the Kiera Knightly movie , 2011 A Dangerous Method which is based off the 1993 Nonfiction Book of the same name, but we also know far more than the 1990s and these historians will talk about the other things Sabina did.

https://ordinaryunhappiness.buzzspro...ung-otto-gross

( not going to talk about it, then I write 4 paragraphs in a dune thread, *laughs* )