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    Pex's Avatar

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    Nov 2013

    Default Re: What drives a poor reputation for the Rogue class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    Sure, but the original objection wasn't reasonable to begin with. The idea that your amazing disguise doesn't matter because you're going to be subject to Detect Thoughts all the time is only true if your game actually has everyone Detecting Thoughts all the time. Not to mention that the other creatures mentioned (Fiends/Celestials) might have Truesight, which actually DOESN'T foil a mundane disguise, but would see through a magic illusion like Disguise Self.

    Again, the commentary is basically something like "it won't work 100% of the time, so it's a useless feature".

    @BlatantBeast: Agreed on Narrative Focus class features.
    This isn't new. Spellcasters are always assumed to have the perfect spell needed at the exact moment it's needed. Who needs a rogue to open locks when the wizard can just cast Knock? During 3E every wizard and their grandmother had a Wand of Knock available, easily purchased or they made it themselves. Don't use Diplomacy/Persuasion. The wizard will cast Charm Person. Don't look for a portal. The wizard will cast Plane Shift. Don't look for a bridge. The wizard will cast Fly or Dimension Door or Teleport. Wizard doesn't have the spell? Don't worry, he'll have it tomorrow. The game world will freeze and not change in any way just so the wizard can long rest and change his spells in the morning. Of course in combat monsters will always fail their saving throws.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pooky the Imp View Post

    Surely this should just be a standard use of the Disguise and Forgery Kits?

    I despise this sort of design because 1) Assassins end up stuck with the astonishing ability to use a disguise kit to... disguise themselves! 2) The ability to create disguises/personas of this nature is removed from other rogues, "because otherwise what would be the point of this ability?".
    You're right, but sometimes an ability should be class/subclass exclusive. Only a Sorcerer with Subtle Spell should be able to cast a spell without being noticed. No Deception/Sleight of Hand checks from anyone. Only the Arcane Trickster should be able to manipulate maneuvers with Mage Hand, going beyond the spell description. The trouble is determining what should be class/subclass exclusive and what should be anyone can do. Where should the line be drawn?
    Last edited by Pex; 2024-04-28 at 11:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by OvisCaedo View Post
    Rules existing are a dire threat to the divine power of the DM.