Fair enough, but I still don't really have the interest. I'm not about to go running off to different threads defending Sauron for kicks. It's not entirely a question of being 'unqualified' to argue against an unknown combatant - I duck in because the fight itself interests me. I might pop over at some point... Rowan, you're doing that thing about the Ring again. "The Ring can be used to overthrow Sauron, but its weilder will become a new Dark Lord" *isn't* a victory? I'd say 'overthrow Sauron' is a sufficient victory condition.

But that's for the other thread to decide!