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Thread: Stalker - ToB Skillmonkey base class

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Stalker - ToB Skillmonkey base class

    When I first looked at this, it shrieked overpowered. However, I reconsidered a bit. Look at the class features, compare them to the warblade (or maybe swordsage, but warblade is easier)
    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post

    Stalker HD: d6
    1 Trapfinding, Sneak Attack +1d6 vs Battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude
    2nd Uncanny Dodge, Track vs Uncanny dodge
    3rd Fast Movement +10'; Trackless Step vs Battle ardor (critical confirmation)
    4th Battle Readiness, SA 2d6
    5th Evasion vs Bonus feat
    6th Flawless Stride; Improved Uncanny Dodge vs Improved uncanny dodge
    7th Sneak Attack 3d6 vs Battle cunning (damage)
    8th Camoflage; Skill Mastery
    9th Blindsense 30' vs Bonus feat
    10th Sneak Attack 4d6
    11th Swift Tracker, Fast Movement +20' vs Battle skill (opposed checks)
    12th Improved Evasion
    13th Sneak Attack 5d6 vs Bonus feat
    14th Hide in Plain Sight (Shadow)
    15th Opportunist vs Battle mastery (attacks of opportunity)
    16th Sneak Attack 6d6
    17th Heightened Awareness vs Bonus feat
    18th Free Movement
    19th Sneak Attack 7d6
    20th Blindsight 30', Stance Mastery vs Stance Mastery
    [/table]
    That is a lot of class features. Now, what does the warblade have instead? Well, I compared. Cancel....

    1 Trapfinding, Sneak Attack +1d6 vs Battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude
    2nd Track
    3rd Fast Movement +10'; Trackless Step vs Battle ardor (critical confirmation)
    4th Battle Readiness, SA 2d6
    5th Evasion vs Bonus feat
    6th Flawless Stride
    7th Sneak Attack 3d6 vs Battle cunning (damage)
    8th Camoflage; Skill Mastery
    9th Blindsense 30' vs Bonus feat
    10th Sneak Attack 4d6
    11th Swift Tracker, Fast Movement +20' vs Battle skill (opposed checks)
    12th Improved Evasion
    13th Sneak Attack 5d6 vs Bonus feat
    14th Hide in Plain Sight (Shadow)
    15th Opportunist vs Battle mastery (attacks of opportunity)
    16th Sneak Attack 6d6
    17th Heightened Awareness vs Bonus feat
    18th Free Movement
    19th Sneak Attack 7d6
    20th Blindsight 30'
    Still a lot. Now, what is equivalent to what?
    Battle Cunning is effectively sneak attack, but only INT damage. This varies a bit, let's say it's worth 2d6 sneak attack at later levels, 1d6 until level 16 or so. A bonus feat from the limited list is rather useless, but is similar to track, and heightened awareness. Probably close to battle readiness.
    Weapon aptitude isn't worth much. Battle Mastery is about the same, almost better than opportunist. Say battle clarity is close to evening reflex saves, and battle ardor 1d6 sneak attack. Say battle skill is similar to swift tracker, flawless stride, and trackless step, because neither is that useful...
    Cancel again.
    1st Trapfinding, Sneak Attack +1d6
    2nd
    3rd Fast Movement +10';
    4th
    5th Evasion
    6th
    7th
    8th Camoflage; Skill Mastery
    9th Blindsense 30'
    10th Sneak Attack 2d6
    11th Fast Movement +20'
    12th Improved Evasion
    13th Sneak Attack 3d6
    14th Hide in Plain Sight (Shadow)
    15th
    16th Sneak Attack 3d6
    17th vs Bonus feat
    18th Free Movement
    19th Sneak Attack 4d6
    20th Blindsight 30'
    Ok, so basic damage is ahead by a few d6, which improve later. Evasion, Free Movement, Hide In Plain Sight, Camoflage, Skill mastery, fast movement 20, blindsense/sight, and improved evasion, as well as trapfinding.

    What does the warblade have in return? A better fortitude save, 3 hp/hd, a bonus feat, better armor, Full BAB and maneuvers. Hmmm.

    Class Skills (8+Int mod): Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering, Dungeoneering, Geography, Local, Nature) (Int); Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Locks (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (N/A), spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex)
    Ok, compared to the warblade's 4, 8+int is much better. Nice skill list, like a rogue. No UMD, which is good.

    Ok, so.

    4 skill points per level + Evasion + improved evasion + Free Movement + 20 ft speed + HiPS + camoflage + blindsense + blindsight + skill mastery + 4d6 sneak attack + trapfinding + Shadow Hand school

    vs better BAB, Diamond Mind, Stone Dragon, White Raven, Iron Heart, better fort save, 3 hp/hd, better armor and a bonus feat.

    Hm. Let's mentally cancel some stuff again. HP and armor are probably worth evasion and improved evasion, and let's say trapfinding. Diamond mind is easily as good as shadow hand. A bonus feat is worth.... um. Not much. BAB is worth skill points, maybe 3d6 sneak attack.
    This puts the Stalker with Free Movement, 20 ft speed boost, HiPS, camoflage, blindsense and sight, skill mastery, and 1d6 sneak attack.

    This is a good fragment of the scout's role, and pretty worthwhile. However, the warblade still has 3 more schools of very potent maneuvers. Cheese like WRT and IHS aside, those schools are probably worth some hiding, sensing (hearing the air, anyone?), damage, speed, and skill power. However, free movement is pretty darn potent, and I think it might be OK gone.

    My main beef, however, is Stance Mastery. With two schools, this isn't really appropriate, nor is it good. Losing Stance Mastery would make the Stalker a bit more unique, and not a rip of many class features. I might also provide some more defensive abilities against melee attack. Note that my comparison probably slid a bit in the Stalker's favor, you could stand to lose some more class features.

    Drop Stance mastery, and the sneak attack to say 1d6 at level 3, 1/3 levels after. Mayybe Free Movement. Add a unique capstone, and if you drop free movement, and the capstone isn't too good, maybe throw diamond mind back in. However, I don't want to be responsible for Assassin's Stance'd TWF full attack, Raging Mongoose, TIME STANDS STILL, Sneak Attack.

    Also, you have no stat foci. Which statistics should this class use? I suppose it is NAD, non-attribute dependant, which is cool.

    Actually, I just realised I may have underestimated the weakness of d6 hd. Oh well.
    Last edited by Arbitrarity; 2008-11-13 at 01:11 AM.