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    Default Re: Will the Real Holy Warrior Please Stand Up? [Class fix+1 PrC, 3.5, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Tiers are a method of describing how concept translates mechanically to versatility, my atheistic LG friend. Crusader, Warblade, and Swordsage are all Tier 3 classes because they have a stunning amount of options while still remaining in defined roles.
    So, make something worth a bloody tier three. This isn't that. It suffers from many of the same design faults that the original paladin did and indeed doesn't seem to comprehend why the Paladin sucked in the first place.

    Nevermind that the OP said he wanted it to be competitive with CoDzilla. I don't really care about that, I care that the class doesn't bring anything to the game. Tome of Battle, on the other hand, is awesome and brings all sorts of goodness to the game (even if Crusaders bother the heck out of me with the "I hit it so hard I heal people" thing. Argh)

    Tier one classes have SO MANY OPTIONS that they simply transcend the idea of roles altogether. One cleric can be an entire adventuring party unto himself; same song and dance applies to the Wizard. As such, the question isn't, "Why should I play this remake when Cleric does it better?" but rather, "Does this remake stand on its own when placed into its role?"
    I am aware of JaronK's tiers, thanks. And this doesn't fit into them appropriately at all. Like I said, the problem is that this class design kinda just sucks. It has no tactical versatility. Not as much as a cleric, and not as much as a ToB character either, and the sloppy mechanics don't really contribute themselves to compelling knight in shining armor flavor (though a couple of them at least try, like the wish thing). It doesn't even really require me to THINK as I play it, all you have to do is take defensive line and charge it and hope they don't do anything about it, or (maybe) see if turn optimization will let your turn anything.

    Seriously, pretty much all of the abilities granted fall into one of the following categories:

    1) Moar Damage! Not more ways to apply damage or more tactics or anything. Just Moar Damage When I Charge The Evil Thing! As if this was a problem for the Paladin before.
    2) Turn it! Turn it! Unless I can't yet!
    3) Piddly healing that's largely irrelevant when you get it, save in the sense it was relevant for the old paladin (I can use wands!). The best part is that you can have unlimited fast healing and thus heal everyone to full for free. But that's basically saying you're a more economic version of Cure Light Wounds.
    4) Decent to good passive resistances (Magic Circle all day every day? That's a darned good thing) that don't require me to do anything in-game except stay in the general vicinity of the party.

    It looks terribly boring to play and I could make a more fun paladin with other mechanics before I even start houseruling. And heck, if you think a clericadin is too potentially good, you can always intentionally make a worse build. It's easy peasy. For example, don't use Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell.
    Last edited by Godless_Paladin; 2010-10-12 at 02:28 AM.