Relationship Woes and Advice, The Seventh Saga

[Syka]

Just keep telling him you don't want to visit him when he asks. The last time I spent the night at my dad's I was only 11. I stopped visitation myself after that (well, more I told him I didn't want to see him and he did exactly jacksquat to try and change my mind). After I turned 18 and chewed him out, THEN he started trying to be involved. I tolerate his prescence at events and such, but it's always awkward and there is no way I'd spend a night with him let alone 6 weeks or a whole summer.

That's how I felt at your age, too.

If telling him tactfull doesn't work stop responding to his emails and apply to the courts to revoke his visitation. At your age, I'm pretty sure you get a say in custody arrangements.

Honestly, it sounds like there is a specific reason he wants you to visit this summer if he randomly backed out of seeing you a couple weeks ago and barely said hi to you. If he's a compulsive liar (my dad is/was too), I wouldn't trust it, to be honest.

[xPANCAKEx]

i think if you want to be treated like an adult, you have to act like an adult...

we would all LOVE to have a healthy, positive relationship with our parents, and for them im sure the reverse is true. Given your situation i can see how you would certainly be reluctant to spend vast amounts of time with him.

If hes not been particularly the best parent up until now then maybe this is his rather unsubtle way of trying to build a few bridges, and he just doesn't know how yet. I think rather than fobbing him off, tell him why you're angry with him, but that you do want to eventually be able to get along. Its just that its going to take more than 6 weeks to do that (especially if you're forced into it). Make sure you explain why you feel it would be rash in clear and honest terms, including your resentment over his previous actions. Make yourself as clear as possible, but don't ramble about

maybe the diplomatic route of altering your plans - offering to alter your travel plans to spend a bit of time with him, but only if he makes concessions on his part also. He can't expect you to dive into 6 weeks of constant contact and expect it to be all rainbows and lollypops. It will take time. Maybe a week or 2 with him in summer, but the occasional weekend before then - by the sounds of it, you've got a lot of "getting to know each other" to do

this will give you time to judge his sincerity - but if he is just trying to manipulate you in some way you can back off.

Its also definately worth seeking a legal opinion on the matter, to see if you can make it so contact is on terms more acceptable to you

[Pyrian]

He's a compulsive liar who was physically and emotionally abusive to you? Deal with him in your own sweet time and don't feel in any way obligated to have any sort of relationship with him at all.

[cycoris]

Honestly, it sounds like there is a specific reason he wants you to visit this summer if he randomly backed out of seeing you a couple weeks ago and barely said hi to you. If he's a compulsive liar (my dad is/was too), I wouldn't trust it, to be honest.

I don't think there's a specific reason for summer, because the first time he wrote (in September), he wanted me to spend Christmas with him.

If hes not been particularly the best parent up until now then maybe this is his rather unsubtle way of trying to build a few bridges, and he just doesn't know how yet. I think rather than fobbing him off, tell him why you're angry with him, but that you do want to eventually be able to get along. Its just that its going to take more than 6 weeks to do that (especially if you're forced into it). Make sure you explain why you feel it would be rash in clear and honest terms, including your resentment over his previous actions. Make yourself as clear as possible, but don't ramble about

I think one of the main problems in my situation is that he has never apologized for the times he threw vases at me, deliberately smashed my head against a doorframe until he drew blood (twice), forced me to eat foods we both knew I was allergic to, and locked me outside the house in the middle of winter when I was eight because he was mad. I see an apology as admitting that there's a problem and trying to find ways to fix it. Since at this point he won't admit that anything he did was out of line, I'm very much at loathe to put either of us in situation where such things could happen again, either by visiting him or telling him that I don't want to, even though I am better equipped to deal with him than I was six or seven years ago.

He's a compulsive liar who was physically and emotionally abusive to you? Deal with him in your own sweet time and don't feel in any way obligated to have any sort of relationship with him at all.

I'd very much like to, and would if I didn't have a couple uber-selfish reason for not completely pissing him off: in my religion, in order to get married you have to have both your biological parent's consent, and even though my mom said it wouldn't be the end of the world if he stopped paying child support, it would definitely make things tight.

I guess what I need is a way to make him feel like he's somehow involved in my life without him actually having anything to do with me. Should be a piece of cake, no?

*hands cake to Syka, xPANCAKEx and Pyrian*

[Syka]

Even if visitation stops, he can't just up and decide to stop child support.

Honestly, it doesn't sound like it would be a safe environment and unless you have a quick out ready, I wouldn't do it.

ETA: Actually, not really that hard. I see my dad at Christmas and on mine and my sisters birthdays and we invite him to major events (like graduations). I would send him an email every few months updating him on how school was, but not much more. That way he's 'involved' but not really doing anything, nor is there much required interaction.

[Dragonrider]

*hugs Coris*

If you want to talk, my PM box is open. So is my email. And my Skype. And every other form of communication between you and I. And if you would like my mother's advice again (I don't know if it was helpful before or not) I'm sure she would be happy to give it as well.

[cycoris]

Even if visitation stops, he can't just up and decide to stop child support.

No, he can't, but no one would be able to do anything unless either he moved back to the county in Arkansas where the divorce was served, or my mom drags him to court next time she's in that particular county. *shakes head at the American legal system*

Actually, not really that hard. I see my dad at Christmas and on mine and my sisters birthdays and we invite him to major events (like graduations). I would send him an email every few months updating him on how school was, but not much more. That way he's 'involved' but not really doing anything, nor is there much required interaction.

That's quite a good idea. Maybe if I tell him I won't visit him at all, and tell him he can do X, Y or Z a while later, he'll feel like I'm giving him something instead of feeling like he's being cheated out of his rights.

[Coidzor]

Less serious:

Spoiler

Show

Strychnine

More serious:

Spoiler

Show

Reexamine why you would want to have anything to do with this individual after child support is no longer an issue. Seriously. You want this guy to be the final say in whether you're getting married?

[Serpentine]

I think, ideally, Pancake's advice would be pretty good. However, considering the circumstances... I think you need to tell your father that you don't feel safe with him, and simply don't want to spend any extended amount of time with him. Inform him that if he genuinely wants a positive relationship with you, then he needs to do some serious repairs. You certainly do not owe him tact.

[Zeb The Troll]

What ^^ she said. I was going to recommend something very close to what Pancake suggested until you described the violence.

But let me add this. I, once, long long ago, had a falling out with my father because he and I didn't see eye to eye and I was mad that he wasn't around as much as I wanted, et cetera, and so on. We now have a very healthy relationship because he has become a very different person. I realize that my troubles with my dad are not comparable to yours. I'm just saying that people, sometimes, do change for the better. But they don't do it overnight. So even if you do manage to avoid having to spend any time with him right now, keep it somewhere in the back of your mind that he may not always be the terrible person he was. And if that time comes, when he can demonstrate to you that he is that different person, then you can open the door again and work on rebuilding the relationship that he destroyed.

I hope that didn't sound rambling. I can clarify if needed.

[Felixaar]

Riss, I think the main problem here is that for your beliefs your father must be kept in your life. I would say the best idea is to keep up as minimal as possible contact with him, and if you have to meet with him make sure someone else is with you at all times. If it becomes an issue down the track dont be afraid to take it to the higher authorities and remember you can always talk to me about it. On the plus side once you are married you can try to just leave him behind completely.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

So, in a repeated staple of my life, is being described as "disheveled" by a lady-you-like a good thing? It seriously happens to me way too much.

I figure it's better than "like hell," which has happened in the past. I figure it's a way to say that while being insulty-flirtatious.

[snoopy13a]

So, in a repeated staple of my life, is being described as "disheveled" by a lady-you-like a good thing? It seriously happens to me way too much.

I figure it's better than "like hell," which has happened in the past. I figure it's a way to say that while being insulty-flirtatious.

Usually not. Unless by an odd chance she's attracted to the sloppy look. However, I suppose commenting at all may denote some kind of interest but not necessarily romantic interest. If she had no interest in you, she'd likely not comment at all (unless she is the noisy type that will critic random people).

[Felixaar]

So, in a repeated staple of my life, is being described as "disheveled" by a lady-you-like a good thing? It seriously happens to me way too much.

I figure it's better than "like hell," which has happened in the past. I figure it's a way to say that while being insulty-flirtatious.

Depends on the lady in question. Some people like that kind of look, some don't... probably most don't, though.

[xPANCAKEx]

So, in a repeated staple of my life, is being described as "disheveled" by a lady-you-like a good thing? It seriously happens to me way too much.

I figure it's better than "like hell," which has happened in the past. I figure it's a way to say that while being insulty-flirtatious.

depends on the girl and the way it was said - she may be teasing you, or she may genuinely think you look like a scruff

so what about you do think she might discribe as disheveled?

[Serpentine]

So, in a repeated staple of my life, is being described as "disheveled" by a lady-you-like a good thing? It seriously happens to me way too much.

In my opinion, next time this happens the conversation should go thusly:
Her: "You're looking disheveled today." (go to 1.)
1. You: "Is that a good thing?"
Her: a) "Yeah, it suits you." (go to 2)
b) "Not really." (go to 3)
2. You: "Cool, thanks. I'm glad you like it
3. You: "Oh... Well, how would you like me to look? Maybe you should take me shopping/pick out my outfit sometime "

[Felixaar]

...if that works I will be suprised, but still... it IS reccomended by Serpentine.

[averagejoe]

While that precise sequence/wording might not always be the best idea (social interactions are hard to predict that way) I do have trouble disagreeing with anything in the form of a flowchart.

[xPANCAKEx]

In my opinion, next time this happens the conversation should go thusly:
Her: "You're looking disheveled today." (go to 1.)
1. You: "Is that a good thing?"
Her: a) "Yeah, it suits you." (go to 2)
b) "Not really." (go to 3)
2. You: "Cool, thanks. I'm glad you like it
3. You: "Oh... Well, how would you like me to look? Maybe you should take me shopping/pick out my outfit sometime "

im not too keen on some of those wordings. 3 comes across as FAR too submissive for my liking. as for 2, in the early stages of flirting, never over egg a thank-you, it seems too eager... still doesn't mean you can't say it though

change:
2: ha thanks... reckon i should i should ask for change too, or would that go to far?
3: bit rich coming from you though... but i suppose i could be persuaded to go shopping with you for a new shirt or 2


but also - what exactly about you do you think shes lookin at when she calls you on it?

ps: it should be noted my "defence mechanism" usually consists of a lot of cockiness and sarcasm... but hey, it serves me when, and has been the downfall of many people

[Felixaar]

personally pancake, I think your version of 3 is a little to much on the insulting side.

[Zeb The Troll]

3: bit rich coming from you though... but i suppose i could be persuaded to go shopping with you for a new shirt or 2

How very David DeAngelo. I'm pretty sure I've voiced my opinion of that technique in an earlier thread.

[Serpentine]

Pancake, I reckon some sort of compromise between our versions'd probably be about right.

[The Rose Dragon]

Actually, I forgot to tell you all something.

I had a date!

Well, not exactly a date-date; it was just coffee and chat. But it was one-on-one with a quite attractive and interesting girl.

Of course, she went back to the States soon after, but apparently I am capable of going out on dates.

Huh. Who would've thunk it?

Of course, since then I've been unable to replicate my success, mostly cause everyone is speaking Turkish in Turkey and I feel more comfortable in a foreign language.

((This place doesn't have to be all woes and advice, right?))

[xPANCAKEx]

personally pancake, I think your version of 3 is a little to much on the insulting side.

as with many things, it all depends on your delivery (ie: tone of voice/body language)

say it with a look of anger and it can taken as an insult. Say it with a half-laugh and a broad smile, they'll get that you're being cheeky... Obviously the latter is preferable.

all depends on if you can pull such antics off.

besides - if the girls gunna call him disheveled to his face, i doubt shes got such thin skin that she can't take the odd remark back, especially something CLEARLY said in jest. If she has, then would you even want to date a girl like that anyway.

The whole point of being a bit cheeky is that if a girls just called you disheveled and you roll over and say "ok, change me" it doesn't project a good self-image. If you don't fight your own corner at least a little then it can come across as submissive and almost a bit like you've got no sense of pride about yourself (although some might argue that already if your appearance can be described as disheveled)

also ladies of the playground: would you really want to date a guy who will change his appearance just because YOU didn't like it?
OR
would you prefer a guy who feels comfortable and confident about the way he looks but is open to trying new things

its all about how you project yourself - being eager to please is never a winner. Being downright insulting isn't a wise choice. Being cheeky is good if you can pull it off. But otherwise, just be polite

ALSO - VeisuItaTyhjyys - are you happy with the way you look?

[Syka]

It depends. If he was a total slob, I probably wouldn't be attracted to him. If I date someone, they need to be presentable.

If by disheveled she meant he was scruff with a beard or something and shaggy hair, that's one thing.

If she meant his clothes look like a mess and all, I wouldn't blame someone for mentioning they might want to look neater.

But that's me. I mean, if someone said I should probably iron my clothes or brush my hair or something they don't mean to change who I am or my style- they're trying to suggest I look neater, which is not a bad thing.

[The Extinguisher]

Can someone give me a nice way of telling your significant other that her best friends are a bad influence, irrational and probably just a little crazy without sounding controlling and like a jerk.

Because they've got enough to resent me from, and I don't need anything turned against me anymore. Apparently my helping my girlfriend to quit smoking and keep her from going back is because I'm a heartless bastard that only wants to control her.

Sigh.

[Serpentine]

Pancake: Think you're missing a bit of the delivery in my version, too. Asking "how would you like me to look?" isn't necessarily a "FIX ME OH GREAT AND POWERFUL MISTRESS!", but a "so what sort of styles do you like?" or "So, if, in a hypothetical situation, you had control over what I wear, what would you want me to?" or "what do you reckon I'd look good in, then?" or, if the reason for a person's disheveled appearance is that he just has no sense of aesthetics or whatever, then it can be a genuine plea for help. The "well maybe you should take me shopping sometime " is both, as you put it, cheeky, and a not-so-subtle-but-playful-enough-to-be-low-risk-and-low-pressure way of asking her out on/arranging a date.
It's certainly not about rolling over and letting her rub your belly. It's about finding out what she does like and then deciding, before or after trying it (I personally like the "after"), whether to take it into account. If nothing else, if you do end up asking her out, then you already know how you should dress up for her. It's about being open to suggestions and improvements, it's an instant conversation, and it's an easy way to show you're interested in her and/or want to spend some "alone-time" with her.

Your 2. seems like a bit much, unless he's really scruffy, but [insert lighthearted appearance-related joke here] could work. Nothing wrong with accepting a compliment as it is, though. Your 3., again, could work, but is at a great deal of risk of looking spiteful, defensive and nasty. It'd probably be fine with me, especially if I'm actually looking pretty good that day (if I'm not, I'm probably gonna be self-concious about it), but a lot of girls have pretty fragile egos, and cheeky or not, that's a pretty potent jab.

[Pyrian]

Serpentine: I think it's worth noting specifically that the sorts of behaviors you're discussing are inherent social filters. Some people are going to be attracted to Pancake's snark, and some are going to be repelled. This is not necessarily a bad thing. The fact that overall it seems to be working for him suggests that it isn't; he's attracting the sort of people that find that sort of thing endearing, and repelling the sort of people he'd probably end up repelling anyway.

And it works both ways. Being ultra-nice, you'll end up meeting a largely different set of people. The people who'd love the snark will probably call you boring, but others - who'd've been offended by our pal - might consider you a gem.

It can sometimes be very important to review what sort of people you're attracting and/or repelling through your behaviors, but generally speaking, people are best off just acting "normally" regardless because then you'll automatically attract the people who want to be around the way you naturally act, and repel those who don't. And that's not a bad thing.

Attempting to tune your behaviors to attract the maximum number of people is sometimes useful - especially for a salesman - but it's not inherently a maximal strategy, IMO.

Can someone give me a nice way of telling your significant other that her best friends are a bad influence, irrational and probably just a little crazy without sounding controlling and like a jerk.

I'd say forget it. Trying to separate an SO from their friends is an inherently controlling behavior. In fact, every list of "signs your mate may be an abuser" has that particular behavior listed prominently.

[de-trick]

well today i learned the fun of trying to woe 2 girls who hate each other guts.

girl A, we'll call her sam, was my friend about 2 years ago, and i always had a crush on her, and i find out that shes moving, now i wanted to make a move on her, but always bad timing, either she has a bf, or were too busy(sports/work)

girl B jill, friends ex, (he's ok with it), we havent offically went out as bf and gf, but we we're a week or so from goin out, wed spend hours talkin on msn, and wed just sound like a couple


so a day or two ago, jill says shes gonna fight sam on friday, so i go along with it saying, ill have to get a front row seat. So i tell sam i need to talk to her alone. Now she thinks i want to ask her out, so ehen i finally do tell sam(day or 2 days later), shes first shocked that i never asked her out, and that someone wants to fight her.

At first i said just to watch yourself on friday, she brought up so im just supose to get jumped, and be in fear all day. So i end up saying its jill. Now my friends current gf(friend who dated jill, now untill now i thought they hated each other, so i didnt mind if she saw me talk to sam about it)


now im a @$$hole, to jill, and still just friends with sam.

I just finished talkin to jill and said she give me one last chance to explain myself

Now i need to figure out how to say i sold you out because a girl i also like is in danger and i still probly wont have a chance with her, when i had a sure thing with you.

[Serpentine]

Pyrian, isn't that what I said? It was Pancake who said that my (intended to be vague and flexible) version was submissive, over-eager and demonstrating a lack of self-respect. I suggested some compromise between our versions would probably be about the best.

De-trick: How about, "dude, you were threatening to beat up my friend. I like you, but that's not cool."?