Results 241 to 264 of 264
Thread: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
-
2009-04-03, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Dublin, Ireland
- Gender
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
First, Parson was granted ruthlessness - but was it up to him whether to use it or not? This may be a non sequitur, as a truly ruthless person would not refrain from "using" ruthlessness, but they would not need to be granted it in the first place, as they would already have it. For someone who was not ruthless to begin with? Well, such overwriting of personality, if indeed it occurred, would surely deepen the questions that this comic provokes about individual free will.
Second: yes, we don't know what was going on inside his head at that point, though of course we can guess. However, I fail to see the point at which I claimed otherwise.
Thirdly, the precise question of whether or not war in Erfworld is analogous to war in real life is what is up for debate here, so your analogy must be suspended pending resolution of that question. However, even if there was no need to suspend it on this account, your particular choice of a military leader with which to compare Parson is by no means unproblematic. Your suppositions about my criteria are unnecessary.
Violence is a natural form of expression for Jillian. It was not an unexpected reaction."Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point."
~~~ C. S. LewisFirst Mate on board Hinjo's Junk
Theological Advisor of the Hinjo Fan Club
Shark Smiter of the O-Chul Fan Club
GitP Folding Team
-
2009-04-03, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
-
2009-04-03, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Dublin, Ireland
- Gender
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point."
~~~ C. S. LewisFirst Mate on board Hinjo's Junk
Theological Advisor of the Hinjo Fan Club
Shark Smiter of the O-Chul Fan Club
GitP Folding Team
-
2009-04-03, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- K-W, Canada
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
From the Blooper thread (stickied)...
Originally Posted by Pclips
-
2009-04-03, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
-
2009-04-03, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
The items that he received are probable artifact-level. Certainly the bracers are. When such an item is personality-affecting, it is unlikely to be voluntary. As for questions regarding free-will, players might B&M regarding the personality effects of magic items, but it's never been considered thought-provoking.
Second: yes, we don't know what was going on inside his head at that point, though of course we can guess. However, I fail to see the point at which I claimed otherwise.
Thirdly, the precise question of whether or not war in Erfworld is analogous to war in real life is what is up for debate here, so your analogy must be suspended pending resolution of that question. However, even if there was no need to suspend it on this account, your particular choice of a military leader with which to compare Parson is by no means unproblematic. Your suppositions about my criteria are unnecessary.
No - the swiftness and particular focus of that violence were unexpected by me.
-
2009-04-03, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
/nerdon
Actually, by the fourth film, most of the storm troopers were NOT clones, as it was simply less expensive to recruit from the already HUGE population.
/nerdoff
-
2009-04-03, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Pennsylvania
- Gender
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
Is it really nighttime already in #150? The giant black ash clouds in panel 4 are obscuring any certain signs, whether sunlight or stars. Perhaps the carpet did burn, but I find the carpet to be an infinitely more plausible means of Scarlet's survival than the pliers. Otherwise, one would have to assert that attunement to the pliers offers resistance to WMD. (The volcano may count as uncroaked, whatever that might mean for a volcano, but I think its ash, rocks, and lava would count as ordinary projectile weapons or fire or similar.)
Scarlet may very well be burnt to a cinder. But if she is indeed dead, then I think we will get some interesting "fog of war" results out of this. Namely, that there will be no eyewitness survivors to the carnage, other than Charlie (who isn't likely to talk) and Parson & company (who will likely be in hiding, if possible).
No one to tell how Ansom was croaked in a fake truce and that the Archons failed to warn anyone about the Twoll, or any of the details of the battle. All the coalition members will be completely in the dark, knowing nothing other than that the volcano went off. Plot-wise, it would make for some interesting conflicts if the details of the battle became know to at least one of the coalition sides (besides Charlie).
Regardless, I think it's quite likely that everyone (or nearly everyone) will believe Parson is dead, that absolutely no one at GK survived, period. Parson's smart enough to know to encourage that belief, if possible. Indeed, how many people of the coalition are left alive who actually know that Parson even existed? Charlie, Vinny and Jillian, of course. But does anyone else know?
***
On a different note, My brother's opinion is that in book 2, Parson will probably become an Overlord of his own side / city. I quite like the idea that Parson will be working for himself.
In that regard, I think both him and Stanley have full, independent barbarian status at this point, and the debate over who now controls GK is moot, as it's been utterly obliterated. The side now completely ceases to exist. Stanely won't have control over anything more than the units in his own hex. Parson, having a choice now, certainly won't willingly choose to work for Stanley anymore. Parson won't be alone, as I think it is certain that at least one of the casters with him, if not all three, will readily choose to work with him.
-
2009-04-03, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
-
2009-04-03, 09:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Northern Virginia
- Gender
-
2009-04-03, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Northern Virginia
- Gender
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
And all Vinny knows (more accurately, guesses) is that Stanley found himself somebody more clever than usual. We don't know exactly how much Wanda told Jillian about the summoning, so that's fairly open (though she has no more reason than anyone else to think that anybody, summoned warlords included, survived).
-
2009-04-03, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Gender
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
You do realize that she doesn't actually tear people's eyes out on a regular basis, right? That her example might just possibly be very slightly hyperbolic?
I feel like I'm talking to myself. Jillian is not a violent neanderthal. She doesn't throw people into shark pits when they displease her. She doesn't look for an excuse to murder everyone around her. She may talk about how much she loves the freedom of combat, but she is actually capable of intuiting the idea that she can interact with people without dismembering them.
I seriously cannot believe that I have to defend the possibility that it might be out of character for Jillian to attack someone.
-H
-
2009-04-03, 09:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Algarve (The West)
- Gender
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).
-
2009-04-03, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
Ah, but can we be sure that the glow wasn't a manifestation of the leadership and/or combat effects?
To be clear, I consider the 'ruthlessness' to be in the same category as Leadership and Duty natural thinkamancies: things that the characters believe exist that we have no way to prove or disprove. Belief in something can cause effects similar to that something actually existing, so to a certain extent whether or not it exists is irrelevant. Where it becomes an interesting concept to explore is in the context of free will. Intentionally or otherwise, this comic delves deep into the notion of free will, and I firmly believe that the creators are intentionally vague on whether or not these things actually exist.
For that matter it's not clear that we have free will... [/philosophize]
For me, at least, it's not that it's in character for Jillian to attack anybody and everybody, but in my interpretation of Jillian it is very in character for her to attack Caesar in this circumstance.Last edited by fendrin; 2009-04-03 at 09:53 PM.
-
2009-04-03, 10:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
Occam's Razor: The box of Luckamancy Charms was true like the other things that popped and the items work as advertised. For the degree of power and cost of the spell, is it likely for corners to be cut when it's far more reliable to provide the attributes?
To be clear, I consider the 'ruthlessness' to be in the same category as Leadership and Duty natural thinkamancies: things that the characters believe exist that we have no way to prove or disprove. Belief in something can cause effects similar to that something actually existing, so to a certain extent whether or not it exists is irrelevant. Where it becomes an interesting concept to explore is in the context of free will. Intentionally or otherwise, this comic delves deep into the notion of free will, and I firmly believe that the creators are intentionally vague on whether or not these things actually exist.
For that matter it's not clear that we have free will... [/philosophize]
Re: Parson's Ruthlessness
I thought it was clear that he didn't want to do it in 147 (p. 134), that at some level the consequences were negative to him. Nevertheless, he did it.Last edited by Architect; 2009-04-03 at 11:18 PM.
-
2009-04-03, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- K-W, Canada
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
Can't be. Caesar always intended to capture those cities, if they existed, but Ansom was still alive when he made the decision to force Jillina to help him. Killing Jillian would have set Transylvito against Jetstone: Vinnie would have ensured Caesar knew that when he suggested forcing her to do anything. The only way to keep Faq secret is to kill Ansom, too, and Caesar wasn't in position for that. And Caesar would have had to believe that Ansom hadn't told Jetstone. He can't make that assumption. Vinnie might think Ansom wouldn't take Faq as long as Jillian was alive, but I have to wonder if he wouldn't point out that Ansom might move to take it if Jillian wound up with him, as Ansom hoped.
As for hiring her, well, her loyalty was seriously in question, and her killing of the dwagons didn't end that entirely. Ansom may have instinctively trusted her, but that was the lust talking... others unaffected by that attraction wouldn't have shifted gears that quickly. After the attack on Staneley, there's little doubt about her, but that happened after Caesar decided to head for Faq to seize it. Jetstone might conceivably get her, but no one else, and especially not a Transylvito that underhandedly forces her to reveal Faq's cities. She may not exactly want her cities, but she wouldn't want that reminder around all the time. She's a free bird, and would not allow herself to be caged, and I'm pretty certain Vinnie knows that very well.
-
2009-04-03, 11:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
I disagree. "Cheating" as in doing something that's not allowed by the rules is impossible. In a real game, you can physically pick up units when no one is looking and place them in other hexes to better advantage. In Erf, you can only move on your own turn, even if you teleport.
But think of Erf as a real game.
1. It's a hidden terrain game so what a player sees is a field of hexes turned over to show only blanks. The ones occupied by their own units are turned up. When they move into a new hex it is turned over. Terrain is exposed, along with any special conditions. Scouting and lookamancy modify this.
2. Erflings know what dead volcanoes are which means they know what live volcanoes are. That means that volcanoes can happen. In game terms that would be an event.
EVENT: Volcanic Eruption. All units in hex and adjacent hexes killed. Units in next hexes out must save or they are also killed. If eruption takes place in a city, it too is destroyed. Affected hexes may not be entered for 1D6 turns. Terrain Type changed to Rocky. Draw new Mineral cards. Any Artifact present will remain on the surface.
3. The scope of the various schools of magic is defined, as is the synergic effect of linking. Magicians have control over the specific effects of spells.
4. So in game terms we have:
I am linking the thinkamancer, dirtamancer, and croakamancer
That's insane, there's no benefit to a link like that!
The rules say i can link casters, so i'm linking them
You wanna waste your resources, it's your call. Roll it!
Rolling-- success!
Ok, the psychic, the necromancer, and the earth elementalist are merged into one creature, what do you want it to do, Doctor Frankenstein?
They're going to reach down deep into the ground and set off the volcano
Say what?
Let's call it an uncroaking
Right-- we'll need a ruling
So there's no cheating, just a judgement call for the GM.NOGENERATION Aleph(0): Copy this into your sig and add or subtract 1 whenever you feel like it. This is a pointless experiment.
10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
-
2009-04-04, 01:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
Well it's definitely night in Strip #151, so it's likely that it's also night in #150.
Good. I win the argument. Lets have cake.
Occam's razor dictates that the most obvious answer is probably the right one. If Stanley can conceivably be killed while having the hammer then Scarlet (a weaker character who may or may not be attuned, being faced with a far more deadly encounter than anything Stanley's ever faced) is almost certainly dead.
BTW, if you respond to me with a TV trope on this, I will have to hurt you.
It only counts as uncroaked in the sense that volcanos are either active or dead. They are never actually 'alive' so they can never be considered 'undead'. The volcano was dead (or 'croaked', since apparently in Erfworld they never say DEAD). So Parson used semantics to say 'well heck if anything croaked can be uncroaked, it also will apply to a non-living thing in the first place that happens to now be dead (ie, croaked).
Hence, just as the volcano was never alive in the first place, it isn't uncroaked now - uncroaking just led to the only one of two possible things which a volcano can be - dead (croaked), or ACTIVE. It's no longer croaked, so now it's active.
Good. Break out the cake.
Sort of the whole point of 'fog of war.' :)
Unless different sides' thinkamancers were told this before the big annihilation occured.
Possible, but not the only possible outcome that still says that Scarlett/Red/Miss Pliers-be-happy is dead.
Stanley might know he's still alive if he finds that he's still paying his upkeep from his now meager purse.
"Boop! GK is destroyed... Hey what the heck, it's been just one turn and 1000 shmuckers has disappeared from my purse!"
Depends on if the thinkamancers were in any sort of contact with the unit commanders off camera.
-
2009-04-04, 01:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
She doesn't exactly describe me as being 'deep' with layers and layers. She's a barbarian.
Thog like hit things. Make them fall down. They go splat. Thog happy.
I think the only reason she doesn't pluck out eyeballs with shrimp forks on a regular basis is because it's hard to find shrimp forks in most settings she finds herself in.
The girl is PMS personified.
1) There are no sharks available.
2) She's a more hands-on type of barbarian.
Doesn't her character sheet description pretty much devolve into STABBITY STABBITY HACK HACK SLASH! if I remember correctly?
Nah, she's not violent at all. :)
Long as they don't piss her off too much.
It's not out of character for Jillian to attack someone who pisses her off. Heck if Vinny didn't start crying and make her feel like she wasn't alone, she'd probably have punched him in the face too.
- JP
-
2009-04-04, 02:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
True, but of course, whenever Ansom did something, it was something that really was "In the box," it was just a part of the box that we the reader didn't know was there (does that make a speck of sense?). It gets pretty meta because we can only interpret the events of the comic based on what we know (because we're all outsiders too). So Parson cheating by going outside the rules and Ansom "cheating" by doing something crazy that was apparently within the rules but we didn't know it amounts, in many ways, to the same thing to us.
Originally Posted by Gez
Of course, for all we know the next page will show Parson curled up in a fetal position, weeping and berating himself with the haunting faces of dead Erfrlings hovering before his eyes. Okay, probably not, but you get what I'm saying.
Originally Posted by Gez
On a related note, I didn't notice this the first time I read it, but the first panel on the second to last row of page 136 appears to show both gobwins and coalition soldiers trying to escape from the tunnels (or hold up the walls?). It's a nice touch.
Originally Posted by Gez
Originally Posted by Gez
Originally Posted by Gez
Originally Posted by Gez
Btw, I'm glad you brought up that image of the cloth golem "mourning" the other one back in that old strip, because I'd totally forgotten about that. To me, it's not clear in that strip whether the bear is actually mourning over its dead comrade or just picking up the remains (having no facial expression or dialogue, it's tough to tell). This touches on another thing I've wondered about these war scenes, which is whether these non-humanoid creatures like dwagons and spidews are intelligent and thinking creatures or whether they're just basically big animals. They don't seem capable of speech, but this is a fantasy world and anything's possible.
Originally Posted by Architect
Originally Posted by Architect
Originally Posted by Architect
Originally Posted by Architect
Originally Posted by Architect
Originally Posted by Estelindis
*scrolls down:*
Originally Posted by fendrin
Originally Posted by fendrin
Alas, there's no way to say one way or the other, but the magic sword certainly does serve as an effective "weasel" to make it pretty much impossible to pin down Parson's motives or mindset in the last stretch of the comic.
Originally Posted by dr_pepper
-
2009-04-04, 10:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
Yay! Now ice cream!
I think the only reason she doesn't pluck out eyeballs with shrimp forks on a regular basis is because it's hard to find shrimp forks in most settings she finds herself in.
-
2009-04-05, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
-
2009-04-08, 08:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Charlottesville, VA
- Gender
-
2009-04-10, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Gender
Re: Erfworld 151 - tBfGK - 138
There was an indescribably cool thread a while back about how to use magic to animate an entire planet. It all followed existing rules, of course. Suffice it to say that most solutions involved something akin to von Neumann machines or even crazier stunts involving legions of extra-planar creatures.
Parson did what he wanted his own players to have to do in his table-top game.Quo vadis?