Ridiculous D&D contrivances

[KazilDarkeye]

Now, that's wasteful.

I mean, you can sell that stuff to vampire lords or pit fiends for a much better value than drinking it.

Unless you ARE a vampire or whatever. Then it's a stockpile.

[chiasaur11]

Unless you ARE a vampire or whatever. Then it's a stockpile.

Vampires?

I thought the union had standards.

Vampires have their own union, and it does not have a clause to cover the purchase of acid breathing sharks!

[Faulty]

Sharks because they are the perfect aquatic predator. I'm not sure why you think any amount of defense is "enough," plus nothing says evil overlord like exotic and ridiculous predators.

Plus it is terrifically decadent. I mean, no evil overlord really needs an elaborate fountain depicting people in pain and weeping real blood, but your foyer just wouldn't be the same without it.

It just seems one step away from sharks with lasers on their heads.

[KazilDarkeye]

Vampires?

I thought the union had standards.

Vampires have their own union, and it does not have a clause to cover the purchase of acid breathing sharks!

Oh come on, I know vampires aren't exactly near the top of the list for cool undead, but they're not THAT bad.

Spoiler

Show

For the record, my top 5 core undead are something along the lines of:

1. Lich
2. Wraith
3. Wight
4. Nightshade
5. Ghoul (/Ghast)

[Dogmantra]

And what if I want to play Crazim'dul, Orc Battlemage, but don't want to be gimped by some arbitrary int/cha penalty?

Then you play a generic divine (so you cast off wisdom) spellcaster multiclassed with a fighter, who only learns spells from the arcane list.

Duh!

[monty]

Then you play a generic divine (so you cast off wisdom) spellcaster multiclassed with a fighter, who only learns spells from the arcane list.

Duh!

Orcs get a Wis penalty too.

[Oslecamo]

And what if I want to play Crazim'dul, Orc Battlemage, but don't want to be gimped by some arbitrary int/cha penalty?

Use point buy. Get a 17 in int or charisma, it drops to 15 with racial modifiers wich is still perfectly playable as you'll still be geting 9th level spells by 17th level. You're a mother****** wizard/sorceror after all, a simple -2 penalty to your main score will actually hardly slow you down if you know what you're doing.

[averagejoe]

And what if I want to play Crazim'dul, Orc Battlemage, but don't want to be gimped by some arbitrary int/cha penalty?

Then that's between you and your DM. However, an orc is an extra option beyond what is assumed (a.k.a. humans.) I come into the game with few to no assumptions about orcs, and so whatever an orc lets me do beyond human is icing, as it were. I might say, "High/epic fantasy, cool, I think I'll play a lady bruiser," then, upon reading the rules see the orc entry and go, "Wow, an orc would make an even better lady bruiser," and be pleased. I would not say, "High/epic fantasy, cool, I want to play an orc bruiser." Or battlemage, whatever.

Races are fundamentally human archetypes anyways. (At least, the core ones. Monstrous levels and level adjustments are another sack of potatoes.) They're called elves or orcs or whatever, and given a few cultural traits, but, other than mechanics, there's little difference between playing an orc and playing a large hairy human with a prominent jaw that doesn't bathe. The only reason not to play a human is mechanical specialization.

Or, going at it from a more "meta" point of view, having a "vanilla" racial option (that is, one without any particular specialization, that can generally hold their own whatever your other choices are) is nice, and having sexual adjustments destroys this. In fact, this whole idea does nothing but destroy choice, which I dislike as a rule of thumb. It destroys a bunch of previously viable builds without really adding anything.

[Dogmantra]

Orcs get a Wis penalty too.

Crap. I read it as "half orc"

[chiasaur11]

Oh come on, I know vampires aren't exactly near the top of the list for cool undead, but they're not THAT bad.

Spoiler

Show

For the record, my top 5 core undead are something along the lines of:

1. Lich
2. Wraith
3. Wight
4. Nightshade
5. Ghoul (/Ghast)

You forget skeletons.

They make awesome minions when you need a ton of guys to attack the heroes (Yes, many evil overlords love Harryhousen.)

It isn't the ISS and the IDLA hate bloodsuckers
It's just that...

Twilight. And William the bloody. I mean, if you can't trust a guy who killed multiple slayers to remain evil, it kinda throws the reliability of the whole species into question.

It's getting to the point you can't trust Vampires to be evil these days.

I mean, my last base was trashed when I was away by Solomon Stone, half Vampire Private detective. (and skateboard champ.) and that wasn't an isolated incident. Vampires are just too unreliably evil at present.

[averagejoe]

]It's getting to the point you can't trust Vampires to be evil these days.

It's true, but vampires are also long-unlived, and you know that the older ones will not only be properly evil, but also brimming with class.

[Faulty]

If I was DMing and a PC wanted to play a good vampire, I would not allow it.

[KazilDarkeye]

Even one who is affected by a Helm of Opposite Alignment?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

If I was DMing and a PC wanted to play a good vampire, I would not allow it.

For me it depends on the source material. Stephenie Meyer, no. Ann Rice/Joss Whedon, maybe. Terry Pratchett, HELL YEAH.

[chiasaur11]

It's true, but vampires are also long-unlived, and you know that the older ones will not only be properly evil, but also brimming with class.

Once again I bring up William the Bloody (and, for that matter his old chum Angelus).

Over a hundred years of solid, old school evil, with good memory of the sheer FUN that is central to any good overlording, and then: Bam. Falls for a girl, cursed by a gypsy, whatever. We got ourselves another irritating do gooder PI.

Even Dracula's fallen for it. You know that utterly irritating little whelp Soma Cruz?

I have it on good authority (Tortured some contractors a Belmont hired. Okay, boozed up. Talkative drunks, the Tanakas.) he's Dracula. If you can't trust DRACULA...

Whole group's gone to pot.

[Tempest Fennac]

I see listed alignments as falling into this catagory due to them making races sem more 1-dimentional, and I fail to see any actual point in them beyond giving the DM permission to use some races as antagonists.

[averagejoe]

Once again I bring up William the Bloody (and, for that matter his old chum Angelus).

Over a hundred years of solid, old school evil, with good memory of the sheer FUN that is central to any good overlording, and then: Bam. Falls for a girl, cursed by a gypsy, whatever. We got ourselves another irritating do gooder PI.

Even Dracula's fallen for it. You know that utterly irritating little whelp Soma Cruz?

I have it on good authority (Tortured some contractors a Belmont hired. Okay, boozed up. Talkative drunks, the Tanakas.) he's Dracula. If you can't trust DRACULA...

Whole group's gone to pot.

Oh, right, that William the Bloody. I mean, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't just let an uncredentialed vampire just walk in and get a job, but a proper vampire is good times.

[Tiki Snakes]

Given that 'Acid' is just a liquid with a suitably extreme ph, I'd say it's entirely reasonable in a fantasy universe to have creatures bred, or even evolve naturally, to be able to tolerate such extreme ph ranges.

If lakes of Acid are prevelant enough, it becomes almost inevitable, really. Add in any level of background magic at all, and really, there is no problem with Acid-Sharks.

[chiasaur11]

Oh, right, that William the Bloody. I mean, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't just let an uncredentialed vampire just walk in and get a job, but a proper vampire is good times.

That's the thing, these are Vampires who, prior to the whole turning good thing, I would have hired without a single moment of hesitation. Murder, torture, summoning of (and then murder for the fun of it) dark eldrich entities... I mean, Spike killed two slayers, supernatural forces for good.

And we all know Dracula, if only for his excellent moon castle.

But now? Wussing out, the lot of them. I mean, I even managed to meet up with Caine, allegedly the first Vampire. You know where we met? His CAB. He's retired into taxi driving.

Factor in the Black Ribboners, and you can't trust anybody with fangs and no pulse.

[averagejoe]

That's the thing, these are Vampires who, prior to the whole turning good thing, I would have hired without a single moment of hesitation. Murder, torture, summoning of (and then murder for the fun of it) dark eldrich entities... I mean, Spike killed two slayers, supernatural forces for good.

And we all know Dracula, if only for his excellent moon castle.

But now? Wussing out, the lot of them. I mean, I even managed to meet up with Caine, allegedly the first Vampire. You know where we met? His CAB. He's retired into taxi driving.

Factor in the Black Ribboners, and you can't trust anybody with fangs and no pulse.

Fair enough. Free will, amiright? Got to get rid of that. It's a real shame though. Some vampires are still pretty classy guys. I mean, I've always preferred a mechanical aesthetic over the undead, but I just can't seem to get the lightning to strike properly or the wolves to howl on cue. Those vampires were masters of that, I'm telling you.

[Faulty]

Given that 'Acid' is just a liquid with a suitably extreme ph, I'd say it's entirely reasonable in a fantasy universe to have creatures bred, or even evolve naturally, to be able to tolerate such extreme ph ranges.

If lakes of Acid are prevelant enough, it becomes almost inevitable, really. Add in any level of background magic at all, and really, there is no problem with Acid-Sharks.

It's no so much improbability as it is horribly camp. If I upon my enemies fortress and it was surrounded by lava with Noble Salamanders and fire elementals bound to it, I would be like, "OK, this is reasonable if ostentatious." If I came upon some dude's lair and there was a huge lake of acid with shark fins circling in it, I'd be like, "Is this guy serious?"

I can understand, maybe, pools of acid that naturally collect in the Underdark with some sort of Aberration or Magical Beast that has adapted to it, but acid-bred sharks? So camp.

[averagejoe]

It's no so much improbability as it is horribly camp. If I upon my enemies fortress and it was surrounded by lava with Noble Salamanders and fire elementals bound to it, I would be like, "OK, this is reasonable if ostentatious." If I came upon some dude's lair and there was a huge lake of acid with shark fins circling in it, I'd be like, "Is this guy serious?"

I can understand, maybe, pools of acid that naturally collect in the Underdark with some sort of Aberration or Magical Beast that has adapted to it, but acid-bred sharks? So camp.

*stands around doing impressive looking but martially useless tricks with a double sword*

*stops and removes ninja mask to reveal face painted like Darth Maul*

*Jumps 100 feet in the air to 1 shot several flying creatures and then, at the peak of the jump, high fives another party member doing the same thing*

Horribly what?

Edit: Oh, yeah, and the theme song from the Mortal Kombat movie was playing the whole time.

[Faulty]

at the peak of the jump, high fives another party member doing the same thing*

That's foregiveable.

[DoctorJest]

It just seems one step away from sharks with lasers on their heads.

You obviously mean wands of lightning on their heads.

Acid breathing sharks with head mounted wands of lightning bolt. Now we're talking.

[Faulty]

Pft, wonderous items capable of shooting disintegrate spells.

[Zhalath]

I actually have nothing against the acid shark. I could see, through evolution, sharks gaining resistance to higher acidity in water, to the point where you get sharks in sulfuric acid. However, the manner in which they feed themselves comes up. Acidborn seals?

I always thought that all those magic staffs that you can bend and they
EXPLODE
were kind of odd, considering a player would never do that, nor would any self-respecting villain. Just sounds like an excuse to give an enemy a powerful item and not have the players get it.

It's also always bugged me that some monsters are "always evil". Really, D&D? "Always evil"? So, when a demon sees a puppy, he has an overwhelming urge to crush it or kick it? What if a demon was tricked into doing a good act? Would that hurt it? Do these creatures always do evil, all the time? That doesn't sound realistic, nor verisimilitudistic (children, this is what we call "making up words"). It just sounds like an excuse to not allow players to play it and be good, or to have monsters it's "ok" to kill.

[Faulty]

Demons are physical embodiments of the metaphysical concepts of Evil and Chaos combined. They're literally Chaotic Evil incarnate, so it makes sense that they're always evil. Stuff like Orcs being mostly evil is silly though, I guess it's a cultural thing... but still...

[Fostire]

I always thought that all those magic staffs that you can bend and they
EXPLODE
were kind of odd, considering a player would never do that, nor would any self-respecting villain. Just sounds like an excuse to give an enemy a powerful item and not have the players get it.

I recall that already existing in 2e and it sounds like the kind of thing that would come from prior editions. If that's the case then it most likely originates from some real life myth or story and, thus, was probably never given much thought as to how that would affect the game mechanically.

[KazilDarkeye]

Stuff like Orcs being mostly evil is silly though, I guess it's a cultural thing... but still...

Well, their patron deity is evil, and orcs respect the power of their patron deity, so they would try to be as much like him as possible (maybe).
After all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. That's why there are templates and/or Prestige Classes that make the orc poke out one of their eyes.

[chiasaur11]

Fair enough. Free will, amiright? Got to get rid of that. It's a real shame though. Some vampires are still pretty classy guys. I mean, I've always preferred a mechanical aesthetic over the undead, but I just can't seem to get the lightning to strike properly or the wolves to howl on cue. Those vampires were masters of that, I'm telling you.

Granted.

I mean, I'm a died in the wool deathbot fan, but if they were reliable, I'd totally agree they'd be great to have in the union. They know how to nail the ominous statement, the laugh, the wolf howl timing... Heck, Dracula has a moon base. What a shame.

Maybe in a couple of years.

Also, I talked to Vic (I call him Vic because he made some obscure agreement to not kill me and I need to get every bit of mileage out of it I can) about the whole free will thing, and he said you can do it, but then world domination is incredibly dull. Then he tossed me into the castle crocodile pit so the peasants could throw rocks at me. Pure class, that Victor.