GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II)

[The Orange Zergling]

Also, as if they heard you and did precisely what you were asking for.

At that point, I have to wonder if it's really invisibility anymore or just a binary mechanic that only generates confusion as to if they're in this lane or not, though. Which is really what I'm talking about - it's nigh-impossible to make an invisibility mechanic that both feels like invisibility and is balanced and fun to interact with. With the melee-range true sight, there is much more room for the invisible heroes to move around in, allowing for much more options for both parties involved, and it feels much more like a silent killer stalking its prey.

This is all in theory, though, and I won't knock it before I try it. Maybe it will actually end up being the one and only time invisibility has worked in an AoS.

And now consider that Rose deals more than 90 damage per hit, before even being boosted in any way apart from her aura. Arro Kree deals 300 damage with a single Fireball (that can neither miss nor be avoided at this distance, plus applies a 4 second burn). Victor deals 240 damage with a single spell that hits automatically. Kassar deals 200 damage with a spell and knocks down for a second. Sozen deals 150 bonus damage, on top of his regular damage, and gives a 20 second bleed. All of the above doesn't even take their ultimates and other special abilities into account.
That's too big a part of his health. It will devastate him.

You've got Rip, dealing 160 damage, Sandstorm, dealing 24 damage per second, and an absurdly fast auto-attack dealing ~100 damage per hit, on top of all of your disables, one of which is passive. You're both fairly powerful, I'd say.

The enemy heroes gain much more than just the ability to attack you. The ones with unit-targeted spells, rather than ground-targeted, get to use those on you reliably, when before they could not at all; the ones that are ground targeted now know which direction you are coming from, so can actually hit you with them. Indeed, they will hit you with them, with you having no chance to dodge at this range, where before they pretty much couldn't do anything at all.

The damage from troops is reduced, yes, but the bigger creep waves deal about 150 damage per second pre-reduction. That's assuming they didn't stack up and there is more of them, which tends to happen all the time on DoE. So we're still talking about roughly 40 damage per second after the blind - that's way too much for Atrius to take.

[...]

Yes, but they will switch back to you as soon as their target dies (which won't take long), and then they will target you, because - being melee, and after the enemy hero - you will be right in the midst of them, thus the closest target. You have no idea how often it has happened to me that I had a decent amount of health left, then suddenly the enemy wave decided to target me because Sandstorm had run out, or the number of blinded units had dropped below the threshold or anything like that, and the wave all alone basically one-shotted me.

All I can really say to this is be more vigilant with your Sandstorms, then. Because all it will take to lose troop aggro is to move out of melee range of a hero for a fraction of a second. You might even be able to do it within the time it would take for the 1 second stun to wear off, if the delay isn't too bad (or you are adequately adjusted to playing with delay).

And that's assuming they would even all be blinded, which they very well might not be.

Then blind them. It's not like it's difficult, costly or on a long cooldown. Besides, it gives you more room to be invisible in.

Agreed. But since you will immediately die as soon as you engage an enemy hero, yet you can't push the lane without engaging the enemy hero, I don't quite see what you would be good for nonetheless. Especially since as soon as the enemy hero sees which of his troops are taking damage, nothing stops them from just going there to screen them with their true sight. Troops tend to be clustered, after all.

If they're blinded, they've got a decent chance to be stunned the instant you hit them. If they aren't, use Rip on them, then not only will they have a decent chance to be stunned when you next hit them, they'll move at half speed which does a plethora of things for you, such as being able to disengage more easily, keeping them from running and keeping them inside of your Sandstorms.

Yes, but again, being able to push lanes requires being able to push back the enemy heroes, and this Atrius wouldn't be capable of that at all.

Except for, you know, the high damage output and the plethora of complete disables (which, in my opinion, are far more powerful than the damage dealing) he has.

He is, absolutely. Way overpowered. So is Arro Kree. Yet if one reduced Arro Kree's hit points to 200 and removed any health gain through levels for him, I would say one grotesquely overdid the nerf, and he'd be pretty much worthless now. And still, if given the choice between that Arro Kree and the Atrius you propose, I'd go with the Arro Kree, because I think he would actually be much more powerful and useful. At least his spells might accomplish something once in a while before him dying.

Okay, now you're just being silly.

[Winterwind]

At that point, I have to wonder if it's really invisibility anymore or just a binary mechanic that only generates confusion as to if they're in this lane or not, though. Which is really what I'm talking about - it's nigh-impossible to make an invisibility mechanic that both feels like invisibility and is balanced and fun to interact with. With the melee-range true sight, there is much more room for the invisible heroes to move around in, allowing for much more options for both parties involved, and it feels much more like a silent killer stalking its prey.

This is all in theory, though, and I won't knock it before I try it. Maybe it will actually end up being the one and only time invisibility has worked in an AoS.

Depending on the size of the true sight range on heroes, I could see other uses for it, too - for example, turning invisible and walking into bushes, so they don't know you're in there. Or circumnavigating them and ending up behind them, to spring a vice on one of them with your lane-partner or harassing one of their squishies.

You've got Rip, dealing 160 damage, Sandstorm, dealing 24 damage per second, and an absurdly fast auto-attack dealing ~100 damage per hit, on top of all of your disables, one of which is passive. You're both fairly powerful, I'd say.

Yes, but they have twice to thrice as many hit points. For them, taking 160 damage from Rip is at most 10% of their life, a nuisance, but no more; for Atrius, losing 300 hit points to a Fireball removes almost half his hit points with a single spell.

All I can really say to this is be more vigilant with your Sandstorms, then. Because all it will take to lose troop aggro is to move out of melee range of a hero for a fraction of a second. You might even be able to do it within the time it would take for the 1 second stun to wear off, if the delay isn't too bad (or you are adequately adjusted to playing with delay).

Okay, I guess that would work. Doesn't help with the enemy heroes being able to target you with all the stuff they couldn't target you with before, though.

Then blind them. It's not like it's difficult, costly or on a long cooldown. Besides, it gives you more room to be invisible in.

Actually, it is costly. Atrius runs out of mana all the time, especially early in the game - a single Sandstorm costs little, but with them lasting as short as they do early on, and with the cap on Ashes on Ashes being as high as it is on low levels, you need to keep casting them all the time. It only gets better once you are well into the two-digit-levels.

If they're blinded, they've got a decent chance to be stunned the instant you hit them. If they aren't, use Rip on them, then not only will they have a decent chance to be stunned when you next hit them, they'll move at half speed which does a plethora of things for you, such as being able to disengage more easily, keeping them from running and keeping them inside of your Sandstorms.

Neither being blinded nor crippled is going to stop them from blowing you up with a spell that deals more than a quarter of your total hit points with one hit, on a short cooldown, though. And spells are the primary damage source for almost all heroes of the Order.

Except for, you know, the high damage output and the plethora of complete disables (which, in my opinion, are far more powerful than the damage dealing) he has.

The damage output would only be high if he lived long enough to strike more than a couple of times, and applying a disable is not worth giving the enemy all the gold and factions for killing a hero, though.

Okay, now you're just being silly.

Actually, no, that was serious. Sure, 200 is ridiculously low, but at least he's ranged, he doesn't have to walk up so close to the enemy that everything will always auto-hit him. Combine that with his superb damage output, and I really think he would be the superior hero (just not against this particular Atrius. That one would be a hard counter).

[The Orange Zergling]

Depending on the size of the true sight range on heroes, I could see other uses for it, too - for example, turning invisible and walking into bushes, so they don't know you're in there. Or circumnavigating them and ending up behind them, to spring a vice on one of them with your lane-partner or harassing one of their squishies.

True, I suppose. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Yes, but they have twice to thrice as many hit points. For them, taking 160 damage from Rip is at most 10% of their life, a nuisance, but no more; for Atrius, losing 300 hit points to a Fireball removes almost half his hit points with a single spell.

Actually, I just checked the map again, and the Order is not nearly that durable. Most of its heroes have something in the range of 1000-1200 hit points, with only a couple of them being 1300, 1500 or 1600. 1600 is actually the highest base health of any level 18 hero that the Order has - the Bane is alone in having dedicated tanks with 2200 health tanks. Not only that, but all but 1 of them actually have less armor than Atrius, too.

Okay, I guess that would work. Doesn't help with the enemy heroes being able to target you with all the stuff they couldn't target you with before, though.

Actually, having thought about this overnight, I'd like to revise my position slightly. I do concede that Atrius would have additional problems fighting certain heroes this way, but most or all of those heroes would be heroes that he already has an incredibly hard time fighting because of DoE's near-comedic balance. Rose is already a monster against him, he's already incapable of fighting Kassar, Dis already benefits more from being in Sandstorms than from being out of them, etc.

So, yes, there would be problems, but they're already problems that already need fixing.

For those who think I'm a DoE fanboy, perhaps rightly, while I do love the game to death for various reasons I've already elaborated on, I do freely admit that it does have numerous problems, any one of which would singlehandedly cripple most other maps.

Actually, it is costly. Atrius runs out of mana all the time, especially early in the game - a single Sandstorm costs little, but with them lasting as short as they do early on, and with the cap on Ashes on Ashes being as high as it is on low levels, you need to keep casting them all the time. It only gets better once you are well into the two-digit-levels.

Ah, I see.

Hmmm... that's true. Perhaps minor adjustments could be necessary, then, such as making Ashes to Ashes require only 1 blinded target per level, but increasing the range per rank? Something like 300/400/500/600/700?

Neither being blinded nor crippled is going to stop them from blowing you up with a spell that deals more than a quarter of your total hit points with one hit, on a short cooldown, though. And spells are the primary damage source for almost all heroes of the Order.

Being stunned will, though.

Perhaps this would mean that, at least in the early game, Atrius would become one of those heroes that practically requires another hero on the lane to help him, like Victor and Tristan. DoE does have 6v6 capacity and 4 lanes, after all.

The damage output would only be high if he lived long enough to strike more than a couple of times, and applying a disable is not worth giving the enemy all the gold and factions for killing a hero, though.

Actually, no, that was serious. Sure, 200 is ridiculously low, but at least he's ranged, he doesn't have to walk up so close to the enemy that everything will always auto-hit him. Combine that with his superb damage output, and I really think he would be the superior hero (just not against this particular Atrius. That one would be a hard counter).

I understand that you feel strongly about this, but with all due respect, I think this is a very gross exaggeration.

[Winterwind]

Reminder: Tomorrow is our next session!

I am not yet sure whether I will be able to be there. Between potential family visits and potentially meeting with a friend whom I pretty much haven't seen in a year, I am extremely uncertain of my schedule for this weekend. I'll try to be there, if possible, though.

Actually, I just checked the map again, and the Order is not nearly that durable. Most of its heroes have something in the range of 1000-1200 hit points, with only a couple of them being 1300, 1500 or 1600. 1600 is actually the highest base health of any level 18 hero that the Order has - the Bane is alone in having dedicated tanks with 2200 health tanks. Not only that, but all but 1 of them actually have less armor than Atrius, too.

Hmm, okay, granted. On the other hand, I think the reason for that might be that for the most part, the Bane doesn't have as many burst-y heroes that can dish out a massive amount of damage via spells in a short amount of time, something that would massacre those more fragile Order heroes. The Order does have the burst to slaughter squishies, but in turn the Bane doesn't have that many of those. Atrius, however, is one of them.

Actually, having thought about this overnight, I'd like to revise my position slightly. I do concede that Atrius would have additional problems fighting certain heroes this way, but most or all of those heroes would be heroes that he already has an incredibly hard time fighting because of DoE's near-comedic balance. Rose is already a monster against him, he's already incapable of fighting Kassar, Dis already benefits more from being in Sandstorms than from being out of them, etc.

So, yes, there would be problems, but they're already problems that already need fixing.

For those who think I'm a DoE fanboy, perhaps rightly, while I do love the game to death for various reasons I've already elaborated on, I do freely admit that it does have numerous problems, any one of which would singlehandedly cripple most other maps.

Well, my point is more about someone like Arro Kree. Right now, I consider Atrius pretty much a counter to Arro Kree - not a hard counter, the latter can still defend himself and quite easily end up being the one who kills Atrius, but overall, Atrius has a pretty good shot at taking down the Whitefire Oracle - Arro Kree doesn't know where to shoot his Fireballs at, where to place his Fire Walls, Atrius can approach him from some random direction, and once Atrius is there, with the cripple and stun, fragile Arro Kree will die very quickly with little chance to escape.

But, if Arro Kree can see Atrius - even if it's just melee range - this means the Fire Ball will hit. The Fire Wall will spawn right on top of Atrius, not in some completely different direction where Arro Kree thought Atrius might be, but where he wasn't. And then, I am not at all sure Atrius will really be able to outdamage Arro Kree's spells, and that's before we assume troops or other heroes decide to join in.

Which brings me to the next point - team fights. As soon as there is more than a single enemy hero present, an Atrius that is not invisible at melee range is completely dead.

Ah, I see.

Hmmm... that's true. Perhaps minor adjustments could be necessary, then, such as making Ashes to Ashes require only 1 blinded target per level, but increasing the range per rank? Something like 300/400/500/600/700?

That might work. Alternately, changing the duration of Sandstorm such that it gains less per level, but starts at higher numbers initially.

Being stunned will, though.

Perhaps this would mean that, at least in the early game, Atrius would become one of those heroes that practically requires another hero on the lane to help him, like Victor and Tristan. DoE does have 6v6 capacity and 4 lanes, after all.

Potentially so, but then, as mentioned above, there being two heroes against him would actually make things even worse for him, unless one could somehow implement it that only the person in whose true sight range he was could see him, but not their allied hero standing farther away (which firstly I'm pretty sure is impossible in the WC3 engine, and secondly would be easily countered by them standing close to each other).

I understand that you feel strongly about this, but with all due respect, I think this is a very gross exaggeration.

In turn, I think you underestimate just how fragile and reliant on being invisible at all times Atrius is in a real game, especially when up against real damage dealers like Arro Kree.

[The Orange Zergling]

Reminder: Tomorrow is our next session!

I am not yet sure whether I will be able to be there. Between potential family visits and potentially meeting with a friend whom I pretty much haven't seen in a year, I am extremely uncertain of my schedule for this weekend. I'll try to be there, if possible, though.

Aw, alright.

Hmm, okay, granted. On the other hand, I think the reason for that might be that for the most part, the Bane doesn't have as many burst-y heroes that can dish out a massive amount of damage via spells in a short amount of time, something that would massacre those more fragile Order heroes. The Order does have the burst to slaughter squishies, but in turn the Bane doesn't have that many of those. Atrius, however, is one of them.

That is definitely true, Bane heroes rely much more heavily on auto-attacks (see Atrius, Anick, Dagurnott, Meridia, etc.) than Order heroes, which would result in more prolonged damage. Which is, unrelatedly, also the reason that blind and invisibility are ridiculously powerful for the Order, and thus occur rarely, yet are (relatively) less powerful when the Bane has them.

Well, my point is more about someone like Arro Kree. Right now, I consider Atrius pretty much a counter to Arro Kree - not a hard counter, the latter can still defend himself and quite easily end up being the one who kills Atrius, but overall, Atrius has a pretty good shot at taking down the Whitefire Oracle - Arro Kree doesn't know where to shoot his Fireballs at, where to place his Fire Walls, Atrius can approach him from some random direction, and once Atrius is there, with the cripple and stun, fragile Arro Kree will die very quickly with little chance to escape.

But, if Arro Kree can see Atrius - even if it's just melee range - this means the Fire Ball will hit. The Fire Wall will spawn right on top of Atrius, not in some completely different direction where Arro Kree thought Atrius might be, but where he wasn't. And then, I am not at all sure Atrius will really be able to outdamage Arro Kree's spells, and that's before we assume troops or other heroes decide to join in.

So, basically, instead of being largely reliant on luck and guesswork (guessing in which direction Atrius is in), it will... be based largely on luck (hoping the ultimate procs), instead?

This seems like a design decision that was messed up from the beginning, to me, specially relying too much on random chance and, again, using invisibility.

Though, something I feel like I should mention; I'm not saying Atrius would be completely unaffected by this change, maybe a slight buff in health or something would be warranted, but I definitely don't think it would be this cataclysmic event you're making it out to be.
If I had it my way, I would redesign Atrius entirely to not use stunlocking, random chance or invisibility in any way at all, but the chances of that occurring are even slimmer than the chances of Dusk changing the invisibility method.

Which brings me to the next point - team fights. As soon as there is more than a single enemy hero present, an Atrius that is not invisible at melee range is completely dead.

Again, assuming the enemy heroes will always drop everything in order to kill Atrius every time. Atrius is admittedly pretty high on my kill-priority list, but there are higher (Meridia, Jhita and Maltheron, off the top of my head), unless I can see that Atrius is trying to close in on me (which can certainly happen but can also be avoided). Troops are strong here, after all; ignoring them in favor of a hero that can go invisible by moving out of melee range of the 1-3 heroes in the lane can result in the loss of a base, or heroes or towers that might later result in the loss of a base (or the game).

That might work. Alternately, changing the duration of Sandstorm such that it gains less per level, but starts at higher numbers initially.

That could work too.

Potentially so, but then, as mentioned above, there being two heroes against him would actually make things even worse for him, unless one could somehow implement it that only the person in whose true sight range he was could see him, but not their allied hero standing farther away (which firstly I'm pretty sure is impossible in the WC3 engine, and secondly would be easily countered by them standing close to each other).

If there are two enemy heroes in your lane, there should also be another allied hero in your lane as well, unless it's in the first moments of a gank that went unannounced or unnoticed.

In turn, I think you underestimate just how fragile and reliant on being invisible at all times Atrius is in a real game, especially when up against real damage dealers like Arro Kree.

[Winterwind]

That is definitely true, Bane heroes rely much more heavily on auto-attacks (see Atrius, Anick, Dagurnott, Meridia, etc.) than Order heroes, which would result in more prolonged damage. Which is, unrelatedly, also the reason that blind and invisibility are ridiculously powerful for the Order, and thus occur rarely, yet are (relatively) less powerful when the Bane has them.

Aye.

So, basically, instead of being largely reliant on luck and guesswork (guessing in which direction Atrius is in), it will... be based largely on luck (hoping the ultimate procs), instead?

This seems like a design decision that was messed up from the beginning, to me, specially relying too much on random chance and, again, using invisibility.

...huh?
No, instead of being largely reliant on luck and guesswork (guessing in which direction Atrius is in), you would have guaranteed hits on him. The only thing changed would be that where Atrius had a chance to avoid damage previously (something he needed in order to survive), that chance would be gone now.

I'm not sure what ultimate procs you are talking about; assuming you mean Atrius', for a stunlock, no, that's not going to happen. Atrius cannot stunlock people until level 18, when he has the third level of his ultimate, and still requires a massive amount of Faction to pull it off - basically, a Firebrand and a whole inventory full of upgraded attack speed amulets (maybe some artifact to extend condition durations, too). Below level 18, he can't do it; being level 18 but not having such an inventory, he can't do it either (in fact, the stunlock isn't exactly reliable even then, but let's ignore that for now).
Atrius is kinda unique in this regard when it comes to DoE heroes - he actually can get fed, and becomes drastically more powerful as he kills enemy heroes and towers, because unlike most other DoE heroes, those factions actually make him tremendously more powerful. Which I absolutely agree is bad design, there shouldn't be one hero that can get really fed, while all the others just slightly improve.

However, an Atrius weakened like that wouldn't get fed, and a large part of the game happens at levels below 18 anyhow, so, no, no stunlocks.

Though, something I feel like I should mention; I'm not saying Atrius would be completely unaffected by this change, maybe a slight buff in health or something would be warranted, but I definitely don't think it would be this cataclysmic event you're making it out to be.

I can only repeat myself: You are underestimating how fragile he is. Whenever I played him, enemy heroes kept pretty much one-shotting me just with lucky hits, with half of their spells missing - now all of them would hit, always, and it wouldn't require luck at all. After unstealthing, I'd estimate he'd live for about 2 seconds when lucky. Arro Kree would need about one half. There is not a single hero in the game that cannot inflict more damage upon Atrius than Atrius health in less time than it takes Atrius to inflict more damage than that other hero's health upon them. I mean, that right there pretty much says it all. For a hero with no support skills, that's the definition of "weakest hero in the game", unless that hero has some way to inflict damage without receiving any in return. The current Atrius does have that, and while he is rather overpowered, he's still far from being an auto-win condition - indeed, it happens quite often that it's him who dies nonetheless! But remove his ability to inflict damage without receiving any himself, and, yeah, he's worthless. Completely, absolutely worthless.

You need to remember, too, that not all of the game takes place at level 18. Atrius won't have 800 hit points for most of the game, he'll have less. On the other hand, all it takes to max a single skill is level 9. So, Arro Kree gets his 300 damage fireballs long before Atrius gets his 800 hit points.

Actually, I think precisely that is the reason why we don't agree. You're thinking of level 18, where he doesn't get instantly one-shotted by everything, tends to have a Firebrand and be able to stunlock. He really is completely OP then. He may even be able to run up to someone and kill them without going invisible at all.
But, most of the game is prior to level 18, and it's a completely different animal then.

I was going to say, that "slight health buff" would have to increase his health by at least 50% for him to end up balanced if one changed his invisibility like that, but I take that back - he'd end up ridiculously overpowered at high levels then (unless one changed his ultimate, see below). Yet, I think it's pretty much what would be necessary to make him balanced at low-mid levels.

If I had it my way, I would redesign Atrius entirely to not use stunlocking, random chance or invisibility in any way at all, but the chances of that occurring are even slimmer than the chances of Dusk changing the invisibility method.

Stunlocking should definitely go, yes.

What I think could work would be replacing his ultimate with a chance to cripple or blind or something like that instead (blind would have an amusing synergy with Ashes to Ashes, too), and maybe giving him a slight life steal. Then, if one gave enemy heroes melee range true sight but increased his hit points a bit, he might have a slight chance to actually survive the enemy hero's alpha strike, and maybe live long enough to either kill his target, or disengage and heal up on creeps (or at least wait for the cooldown on Rip to run out).

Again, assuming the enemy heroes will always drop everything in order to kill Atrius every time. Atrius is admittedly pretty high on my kill-priority list, but there are higher (Meridia, Jhita and Maltheron, off the top of my head), unless I can see that Atrius is trying to close in on me (which can certainly happen but can also be avoided). Troops are strong here, after all; ignoring them in favor of a hero that can go invisible by moving out of melee range of the 1-3 heroes in the lane can result in the loss of a base, or heroes or towers that might later result in the loss of a base (or the game).

Right now, the enemy heroes cannot just kill Atrius whenever they might want to, and they know that he can retreat if necessary. If he unstealthed in melee range though, pretty much all it would take would be each of them using a single spell and he'd die already. Spells like Victor's instantaneous auto-hit would be utterly devastating. Nobody would ever not take the opportunity to remove a major damage dealer and gain factions if it took so ridiculously little effort.

If there are two enemy heroes in your lane, there should also be another allied hero in your lane as well, unless it's in the first moments of a gank that went unannounced or unnoticed.

Yes, but how does the presence of another allied hero help you in any way? It still takes only two clicks by each of the enemy heroes to kill you, and your ally can't help you with that; you don't live long enough for them to heal you, nor long enough for them to be able to inflict any noteworthy damage to retaliate while they are distracted by you, simply because you die so quickly you don't provide any distraction at all.

[Woodzyowl]

Enough with the long posts! Anyways, the Warcraft 3 group is meeting around now, so if you want to play, get on. Quickly. I'm going to be getting off around 8 EST, so don't wait until then.

[The Orange Zergling]

You know, this discussion has ballooned in size so as to be pretty obnoxious to the other people using the thread and is really only between the two of us anyway, so I'm taking it to PMs.

[Winterwind]

Reminder: Next session tomorrow.

I unfortunately won't be able to participate due to a family visit, but I wish you all lots of fun.

[nooblade]

So, I haven't done anything in my little project in more than a week. That's pretty much a fail. As I predicted, it was fun to write and test the system-level stuff but interest declined after that. This is really funny. I remember reading an article on Dan Cook's page about being a "b string" programmer that made it sound really interesting to finish some product (a game), but I guess it didn't go to heart.

But also, I'm getting tired of Warcraft 3. It's been fun, but I think the engine and the editor are holding me back. Some of the things that I want to try are really more appropriate for operating at the engine-level, and that requires some more training. Playing with physics SDKs sounds really fun. But also I'm really envious of the programmers who make something without the editor of some proprietary software. A freeware project sounds really fun.

Actually, I think I would've better spent my time this summer working on a 7DRL. Although I could've done it last week... And I already know how to use Curses, that counts as being ahead of the game for some competitors. Oh well, summer is over soon. Doing real work again will be good for me.

[Winterwind]

So, reminder: Tomorrow is our next session. Hope to see you all there (yes, this time, there should be nothing preventing me from coming ).

[Inhuman Bot]

I'll probably be coming. I've had nothing to do for the past week or so, and am resultingly booorreddd.

[Winterwind]

Reminder: Next session tomorrow. Hope to see you all there (yeah, I should be there, too).

[Winterwind]

Huh. I think I forgot to post this yesterday. Ah well.
Reminder: Next session today. Hope to see you all there.

[Winthur]

[Woodzyowl]

Dat picture

Charming. Successful trololol is successful. And have you even gotten on the frozen throne recently? I don't remember ever seeing you.

[Winterwind]

Very sorry for not posting a reminder and failing to show up on such a short notice - well, no notice, rather - yesterday. I'd gone to visit my parents for the weekend, and then suddenly more guests arrived there, to the point where I didn't have any free moment to even sit down at my computer.

[Nargan]

Lurk lurk.

[Inhuman Bot]

A guy on Something Awful finished, after six years (!) a single player campaign. The story sucks (Well, it's generic) but it's pretty fun. It's centered around microing a handful of heroes, gameplay wise, and worth checking out.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...1&pagenumber=1

The items in it err on the 'useless' end of the spectrum so Bane will like it~

[Winterwind]

*adorable li'l peon*

Lurk lurk.

Oh, hi there!
I hope you find this thread comfortable enough. The bar is over there, if you can get past the rabbit.

A guy on Something Awful finished, after six years (!) a single player campaign. The story sucks (Well, it's generic) but it's pretty fun. It's centered around microing a handful of heroes, gameplay wise, and worth checking out.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...1&pagenumber=1

The items in it err on the 'useless' end of the spectrum so Bane will like it~

Alright - I'll probably check it out sometime. Thanks!

[Winterwind]

And reminder: We have a session today.

Yeah, today. Forgot to post a reminder in time again.

Anyhow, hope to see you all there.

[Prince Gimli]

Greetings fine GitP folks. I was wondering if you could link some melee guides you consider to be good, for Humans in particular, but since I'm not yet sure which race I'll want to play the most, any good guide is much appreciated.

I can of course google for them, but I lack the needed knowledge and experience to judge whether the guides I would find are any good, hence me asking you guys .

[Winterwind]

Hmmm... frankly, I'm not sure what the best place to find WC3 guides is, either. If you linked guides you are interested in, though, I'm feeling reasonably qualified to discern whether they are good or bad though.

Alternately, we probably could supply you with all the advice you need directly. While I think most of us may not have been keeping up all that much with the metagame lately, we nonetheless have enough good enough players to provide all info on the races in general and match-ups in particular you might ever want.

__

Also, reminder: Our next session is tomorrow.

[Winterwind]

And reminder again: Next session tomorrow. Hope to see you all there.

[Legoshrimp]

I will not be there since I am at disneyland.

[Winterwind]

And reminder: Next session tomorrow.
I'm not entirely sure whether I will be there or not yet - I'm getting a visit by a friend over the weekend, but he wasn't able to tell me yet whether he would arrive tomorrow or on Saturday.

[Winterwind]

Reminder: Next session tomorrow.
Again, I'm not entirely sure if I'll make it tomorrow, as I might be getting a visit again, but if I don't, I'll surely be there.

[Miscast_Mage]

Spoiler

Show

Yes, I know that's Warcraft II.
Yes, I felt nostalgia when I saw it and want to play it again.
Yes, I'm digging around for my old copy of it as I speak.

I say, a Warcraft III gitp group? Every Friday for custom maps? Why, this is indubitably a fine chance for some fun! I shall partake of this exquisite past-time! My name is Miscast_mage on USEast. But enough expository banter. It's time we play like men. And ladies. And ladies who dress like men.

A cookie for whoever gets the reference. :3c

Edit: Oh spoosh-darnit! There's a max limit on the friends you can have on WC:III? Why, Blizzard? Why? Would anyone happen to an up-to-date list of who does play? Also, an up-to-date list of what games we play would be nice, too. I'm curious if Dark Deeds and Rural Zombie Onslaught are there. :3c

[Nargan]

Spoiler

Show

Yes, I know that's Warcraft II.
Yes, I felt nostalgia when I saw it and want to play it again.
Yes, I'm digging around for my old copy of it as I speak.

I say, a Warcraft III gitp group? Every Friday for custom maps? Why, this is indubitably a fine chance for some fun! I shall partake of this exquisite past-time! My name is Miscast_mage on USEast. But enough expository banter. It's time we play like men. And ladies. And ladies who dress like men.

A cookie for whoever gets the reference. :3c

Edit: Oh spoosh-darnit! There's a max limit on the friends you can have on WC:III? Why, Blizzard? Why? Would anyone happen to an up-to-date list of who does play? Also, an up-to-date list of what games we play would be nice, too. I'm curious if Dark Deeds and Rural Zombie Onslaught are there. :3c

We usually just skype (he says after only attending like ~2 sessions) so add winterwind83 on skype, as he's the leader, and if he's not there the sessions don't go ahead anyway. (It's true!)

[Winterwind]

Reminder: Next session tomorrow! Hope to see you all there!

Spoiler

Show

Yes, I know that's Warcraft II.
Yes, I felt nostalgia when I saw it and want to play it again.
Yes, I'm digging around for my old copy of it as I speak.

I say, a Warcraft III gitp group? Every Friday for custom maps? Why, this is indubitably a fine chance for some fun! I shall partake of this exquisite past-time! My name is Miscast_mage on USEast. But enough expository banter. It's time we play like men. And ladies. And ladies who dress like men.

A cookie for whoever gets the reference. :3c

Welcome! We are overjoyed to welcome another fine, upstanding gentleman in our midst! I hope you have a comfortable stay; just don't feed the bunny. It will bite your arm off.

Edit: Oh spoosh-darnit! There's a max limit on the friends you can have on WC:III? Why, Blizzard? Why? Would anyone happen to an up-to-date list of who does play?

With BattleNet names in brackets:
- The Orange Zergling (Baneling_Aspect)
- Bunny of Faith (BunnyOfFaith)
- Legoshrimp (Legoshrimp)
- SirSigfried (Libertarian_SDR)
- 742 (742)
- Inhuman Bot (Slaanash)
- The Fiery Tower (TheFieryTower)
- Winterwind (Winterwind_GitP)
would be the ones who are there pretty much every week. From the rest of the group, the ones who have been showing up the most consistently lately would be
- Battleship789 (Battleship789)
- Darth Mario (darth-mario)
- Nargan (Naryuk)

Also, an up-to-date list of what games we play would be nice, too. I'm curious if Dark Deeds and Rural Zombie Onslaught are there. :3c

Dark Deeds is, Rural Zombie Onslaught is not - which doesn't mean we can't play it nonetheless. We always look forward to new maps.

The most commonly played maps would be, I think:
- Rabbits vs. Sheep
- Pyramid Escape
- Uther Party
- Legion TD
- various other TDs, including Elements TD, Eeve TD, MTG TD, Island TD, Stackerz TD, Corrupted TD
- Obsidian Depths
- Castle Fight
- Dark Deeds
- Stand of the Elves
- Regicide
- Battle Tanks

The list of other maps we also play with any frequency, albeit less often, would probably be thrice as long. Essentially, the way we operate is, anyone can suggest what map they'd like to play next (including maps we haven't ever played before), and we just go with whatever the most people vote for, unless somebody says they don't want to play some map, in which case we try to find something that at least nobody is opposed to. That, admittedly, can make the decision process drag a bit if the people present at the time happen to have widely incongruent tastes, but we generally find something for all of us.

EDIT:

We usually just skype (he says after only attending like ~2 sessions) so add winterwind83 on skype, as he's the leader, and if he's not there the sessions don't go ahead anyway. (It's true!)

I am so not the leader! And you don't need me for sessions! That's just a cruel myth! And slander! A cruel slandery myth!



This said, yeah, we usually use Skype for a voice conference while playing, to make the whole thing merrier. You are cheerily invited to participate in that, too; if you don't have a microphone, are shy or just don't feel like it, it is by no means required though (in the first two cases though you can, of course, just join the conference anyhow and simply not say anything).