Gray Ooze vs. Adamantine Warforged?

[veovius]

I ran an encounter the other day where a PC was playing a Warforged with Adamantine Body, with a bunch of metal weapons and some magical gear. He ran into a Grey Ooze. What would be the effects of being grappled by a Grey Ooze? The SRD says that the ooze does 16 points of damage per round of being grappled, but it seems like a typo from 1d6. Also, what happens to his magical gear?

Edit : Are oozes immune to acid damage? It doesn't say anywhere....

[Lord Vukodlak]

I ran an encounter the other day where a PC was playing a Warforged with Adamantine Body, with a bunch of metal weapons and some magical gear. He ran into a Grey Ooze. What would be the effects of being grappled by a Grey Ooze? The SRD says that the ooze does 16 points of damage per round of being grappled, but it seems like a typo from 1d6. Also, what happens to his magical gear?

Edit : Are oozes immune to acid damage? It doesn't say anywhere....

The 16 points of acid damage is correct but only for objects its spend 1 full round in contact with.

The ooze does 16 points of acid damage to objects. A warforged while a construct is NOT an object, it be damaged like any other creature. So the simple 1d6.

[veovius]

Lucky for his metal "armor".....Would you have the ooze deal damage to all his gear?

What about metal magical objects? How does acid affect them?

[reefwood]

I ran an encounter the other day where a PC was playing a Warforged with Adamantine Body, with a bunch of metal weapons and some magical gear. He ran into a Grey Ooze. What would be the effects of being grappled by a Grey Ooze? The SRD says that the ooze does 16 points of damage per round of being grappled, but it seems like a typo from 1d6. Also, what happens to his magical gear?

Edit : Are oozes immune to acid damage? It doesn't say anywhere....

"What would be the effects of being grappled by a Grey Ooze? The SRD says that the ooze does 16 points of damage per round of being grappled, but it seems like a typo from 1d6."

The SRD does not say this. Not exactly. Warforged are tricky, and it looks like you're making some assumptions...which may or may not be correct...or more likely, aren't defined and up to the DM...but the SRD does not say that grappling leads to 16 points of damage.

Warforged are affect by some spells that affect wood or metal, but their description doesn't seem to say anything about nonmagical things, and this acid damage is nonmagical. Also, the 16 pts of acid damage aren't from grappling. It is dealt to objects touch for a full round. A warforged is a creature, not an object.

The composite plating could be treated just like armor. It would be a tough break to lose the composite plating this way, but with the perks of being a warforged, so come the drawbacks. But the ooze would have to hold on for 1 round, so it grapples, and if the warforged doesn't break free before the ooze's next turn, then the damage (whatever the DM decides) happens.

Although, the Monster Manual has the same 16 point amount, so that seems t be correct. You may want to check the Errata to see if it is a mistake that was corrected later. I thought I wrote all the errata corrections into my book, so maybe it is not a mistake, but I also may have missed it. Still, it does seem like a somewhat random number and awfully close to 1d6.


"Edit : Are oozes immune to acid damage? It doesn't say anywhere...."

If it doesn't say they are immune to acid, then they are not immune to acid. Nothing in the Gray Ooze entry or the Ooze Traits sections says anything about acid immunity.


"Also, what happens to his magical gear?"

I think magical gear makes the save just like any other item affected, but you may want to calculate its Reflex save since it could be higher than that of the warforged PC, and the higher save would be used.

[reefwood]

Lucky for his metal "armor".....Would you have the ooze deal damage to all his gear?

What about metal magical objects? How does acid affect them?

I would say that the DM should be consistent, so the players know what to expect. If a fireball, or other similar affects, did broad damage to everything, it would seem fair for this acid to do so as well. But if not, this would be a hard sell.

[veovius]

I would say that the DM should be consistent, so the players know what to expect. If a fireball, or other similar affects, did broad damage to everything, it would seem fair for this acid to do so as well. But if not, this would be a hard sell.

Oops, sorry I was thinking about the Gelatinous Cube and the Engulf attack, specifically there. I see what you're saying though, as it relates to the Gray Ooze.

And does it strike anyone as odd that you can kill a Gelatinous Cube with...Alchemical Acid?

[DoodlesD]

The ooze does 16 points of acid damage to objects. A warforged while a construct is NOT an object, it be damaged like any other creature.

If the character is a women, then i would disagree. just kidding. My opinion is that while the warforged wouldn't suffer from that damage, his plating would. It follows that Ac would be reduced as well, but only temporarily since the adamantine is provided by a feat. Have any cure or heal spell restore the armor plating back.

I don't have any backing for any of this, but if i was the DM, this is how i would do it.

[reefwood]

If the character is a women, then i would disagree. just kidding. My opinion is that while the warforged wouldn't suffer from that damage, his plating would. It follows that Ac would be reduced as well, but only temporarily since the adamantine is provided by a feat. Have any cure or heal spell restore the armor plating back.

I don't have any backing for any of this, but if i was the DM, this is how i would do it.

I like this idea.

To figure out the hit points of the armor, I think you would figure out how many hit points adamantine full-plate would have...so one-third more hit points...whatever that amount is.

[Lord Vukodlak]

IMy opinion is that while the warforged wouldn't suffer from that damage, his plating would. It follows that Ac would be reduced as well, but only temporarily since the adamantine is provided by a feat. Have any cure or heal spell restore the armor plating back.

I don't have any backing for any of this, but if i was the DM, this is how i would do it.

The composite plating is a part of his body. Saying you can damage his plating but not him is like saying I can damage your chest with an axe but not you.
A warforged plating isn't equipment its him.

I like this idea.

To figure out the hit points of the armor, I think you would figure out how many hit points adamantine full-plate would have...so one-third more hit points...whatever that amount is.

It have hit points equal to his and any damage taken would be shared. Just your chest.

[DoodlesD]

The composite plating is a part of his body. Saying you can damage his plating but not him is like saying I can damage your chest with an axe but not you.
A warforged plating isn't equipment its him.

Sure, it's part of his natural armor, but you're dealing an absolute. While a warforged is a creature and not an object, The adamantine armor is not part of the core construction of a warforged body (Meaning a warforged could function and behavre normally without it). Rather the armor is integrated to the body of the warforged and behaves similarly to the armor other humans wear. However, the plating provides natural armor and cannot be removed, which is the major difference and probably the point on which you make your argument.

However, Since the plating is integrated separately, it is not "alive" per say. the plating is more like "Permanently attached objects of protection". Therefore, though the warforged is a living construct, the attachments are not and could therefore be damaged as objects. In this case, with the ooze, they would behave similarly to regular armor in terms of being damaged

EDIT: Actually, i have a perfect example that compares to this. You can crack an egg's shell without damaging the white or the yolk. the ooze could chip away at the protective plating without hurting the actual living core of the construct.

[Sindri]

In the rules for hardness it says that Acid and Sonic damage, the most effective against objects, subtract hardness and then apply the rest as HP damage. Adamantine has hardness of 20, so anything less than 21 points of acid damage has no effect. As for his other items, base hardness is at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm, and each +1 of enhancement bonus on a magic item gives it +2 hardness and +10 HP. So mithril with a +1 or better enhancement is fine, iron or steel needs a +3, and anything softer than that will be taking damage.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Sure, it's part of his natural armor, but you're dealing an absolute. While a warforged is a creature and not an object, The adamantine armor is not part of the core construction of a warforged body (Meaning a warforged could function and behavre normally without it). .

Two things, first prove it, the body feats represent different constructs of warforged which is why they are chosen at 1st level and can't be acquired later. If it wasn't part of the core, a 6th level warforge could take adamantine or a mithrial body feat. Second, You have a ribcage that protects your organs can I chip that away without harming you?

They are an integral part of his body.

On a similar note in D&D grafts are when you attach part of one creature to another, fiendish grafts, illithid grafts etc. You can't harm the graft without harming the person.

If they were separate entities you could damage or destroy the plating without harming the warforged. His essence, his living construct life force flows through the plating. They are one.

[Lhurgyof]

I always saw that warforged taking that feat was pretty damned stupid. But yeah, it would need to actually deal enough damage to soak through the hardness.
And unrelated questions, could the warforged also wear armor with composite plating? Could you make a warforged monk with composite plating and not lose your monk abilities?

[Lord Vukodlak]

I always saw that warforged taking that feat was pretty damned stupid. But yeah, it would need to actually deal enough damage to soak through the hardness.
And unrelated questions, could the warforged also wear armor with composite plating? Could you make a warforged monk with composite plating and not lose your monk abilities?

Why is it stupid you can take a feat for great fortitude, you can take a feat for a unusual ancestor. If your a warforged why can't you take a feat to be built differently, thats why their 1st level only.

To answer your questions
No the composite plating is fairly bulky it takes up the armor slot. You can be enchanted though. One of the fringe benefits. Regular composite plating doesn't count as armor and a monk can freely use his abilities however the body feats such as Mithral Body and Adamantine body count as breastplate and fullplate respectively.

No proficiency is required to use your body,

Warforged also do not have an armor check penalty, they have a penalty on skills that are effected by the armor check penalty. But that just means the penalty to swim isn't doubled.

[Hendel]

I always saw that warforged taking that feat was pretty damned stupid. But yeah, it would need to actually deal enough damage to soak through the hardness.
And unrelated questions, could the warforged also wear armor with composite plating? Could you make a warforged monk with composite plating and not lose your monk abilities?

The composite plating takes up the warforged's "body" slot so he could not wear armor unless he took the Unarmored Body feat.

The base bonus that all warforged begin with does not interfere with any of the monk's class features. However, if he takes Adamantine or Mithral Body then he would loose the monk special abilities as if he was wearing armor. You could, however, increase the warforged monk's enhancement bonus to his armor plating with no negative effects.

[veovius]

In the rules for hardness it says that Acid and Sonic damage, the most effective against objects, subtract hardness and then apply the rest as HP damage. Adamantine has hardness of 20, so anything less than 21 points of acid damage has no effect. As for his other items, base hardness is at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm, and each +1 of enhancement bonus on a magic item gives it +2 hardness and +10 HP. So mithril with a +1 or better enhancement is fine, iron or steel needs a +3, and anything softer than that will be taking damage.

Thanks for that, I think I'll go off that for most of my questions. I'm just amazed that it's that relatively easy to damage magical items!

[unre9istered]

I always thought it was absurd that a grey ooze instantly destroyed an item on a failed save rather than dealing a set amount of damage. A Goliath character with a +5 Adamantine Large Goliath Great Hammer (30 hardness, 130hp because it's a 2-handed metal hafted weapon) is destroyed instantly if the wielder fails a save. Were as if the mace was sitting inside the grey ooze, it would be fine forever because the 16 damage per round would never get through its hardness. This happened in a game I was in, thought the weapon was only +2 with some other bonuses. The character never could replace it because he couldn't find anyplace selling such a weapon and we didn't have time to wait for one to be made.

For this reason I've since had most of my characters put the Blueshine enchantment from MIC on the more expensive armor and weapons they get.